ThunderboltEX 3 firmware update ?

[yajnssnj]

if you got a spare drive, or if it dont matter much re-install windows. and see if you get the same errors. Thats what i do when i get strange problems that i cant figure out, usally works.

I have a spare "image" that I started this weekend with my old EX3 card. When it didn't fix the issue, I installed the new EX3 Card with NVM26. When the new card worked, I reinstalled my previous install, thus when the new EX3 Card with NVM26 worked, I've used the time to get some work done.

I will give that a shot sometime. I also sent a tech request to Gigabyte to see what they think.

Agreed it seemed strange.

[hellokitty]

When we get pcie 4.0 then we will have thunderbolt 4. By then maybe they will fix thunderbolt 3 issues.

[Dean@ERPSAA]

Those are regular hard drives? I am so confused as to how you even get to those speeds. Like I said it's way beyond my SSDs connected directly to my system. The drive I am using is actually a TB 2 with a TB 2 to 3 Apple dongle I use for my Mac Book Pro. Still even TB 2 should be getting much higher speeds no? Basically shouldn't I be getting 40gbs? I am confused how this all works.

Hi Mr. Shan, I came upon this thread in a search since I am having no luck finding any updates for my ASUS Thunderbolt EX3 PICe3 Card. There have been 3 updates, including the most recent dated Jan 2019 and ASUS for whatever stupid reason still has the one from 2017: (17.2.71.250). Anyway, I'm posting to try and demystify where the high speeds are coming from. I'm hoping I will be able to add an attachment, but just in case, I'll write out the explanation.

I am using the same Broadcom/LSI MegaRAID 9361 8i controller, which is Gen 3 and will run up to 8 Internal SATA6G or SAS12G. The SAS are the SFF SSDs 2.5" 0.7, and have the same header as SATA6, except EACH ONE runs at 12 Gb/s as opposed to 6 Gb/s. ALSO Mini SAS SSD's run the gamut with respect to each drive's speeds. For example: right now I am still using 8 x 240GB Toshiba SSD's SATA6 Gb/s, waiting for an order I placed for 8 x 400GB SAS Micron SSDs. The Max speed of a single SATA6 SSD is about 550 MB/s Read and about 520-530 Write. Thus, 8 configured as RAID-0, just at the max scaling (no PCIe2 bottlenecks) 550 x 8 = 4,400, or 4.4 GB/s Read and 530 x 8 = 4.24 GB/s right

For some reason I can't seem to drag an image of a benchmark on the SATA6 array I am running, but I'll try when I make the post. What you'd see is with a Stripe of 128, and with two of my settings being "read ahead" and "ALWAYS write back," gives me about 6 GB/s Read and about 6.8 GB/s Write. The reasons for the speeds higher than just the full scale of the speeds of the 8 drives, is the RAID Controller and also the reason the write speed is faster, is due to something called CacheVault. The 9361 8i for example, has two 1.2 GHz PowerPC processor cores and a 72-bit DDR3 interface
that drives 2 GB cache memory (or 1 ).

I have been in the IT Business almost 26 years. Back with IDE and very slow drives, even SAS 10K and 15K drives were slow, the answer was always smaller and cheaper drives deployed at RAID-0. I know most people who are not familiar with RAID believe RAID-0 is dangerous, since they say (correctly) if you lose one drive out of 8 unlike say, RAID-5 or 6, there is no (what is called) Parity Drive waiting with a Hot Spare to restore the array which takes dreadfully long. These days there are Applications for $50 that can create PITs (Point in Time Snapshots, and also create differential bootable backups to a single drive for the latter and to a NAS, or just a Large HDD for maybe 3 PIT snaps. The key is that if you do lose a drive in a RAID -0 array, $50 software does much more than restore. The same thing EMC NetWorker does. OK, YES, it's slower but for a personal user with a 2-4TB Drive 1/2 full, a dead array, is up and running within 30 minutes with one big difference from traditional file backup.

I just realized, that common misconception I hear about RAID-0 may not exist here. These ROG forums are my 1st go-to many times, I need to make time to contribute. Anyway...with image or PIT snaps:

There is no need to reinstall OS, Apps and files. In fact, if you do not have the time to restore, the automated "bootable" differential backup can be used to boot up and you can continue what you were doing. (But, for people who want that ability I suggest two bootable backups, so even if your main C:\ drive is made up of 8 x 400Gb drives, 3.2GB total, 2 x 4TB HDD is not that bad to know you always have a backup and a bootup. The only shock is if you do need to use the boot drive, be prepared to go back to 60 second and not 6 second boot ups (NOT including the RAID BIOS), until you are ready to restore.

How easy is it really? Let's say you setup an 8 drive SSD array and one drive goes and you didn't pick up an extra one. So what, make the new Array with 7 drives, restore it and then when you get the 8th you place it into the backplane, bring up the RAID BIOS and select "import foreign configuration," reboot and by the time you have restarted, the data on the 7 drives, is properly proportioned using the import process to the new 8th drive.

Lastly, these Micron SAS SSDs I have on order, each one is 400GB and the speed of each is 1,700 MB/s Read and 1,200 MB/s Write. Just at scale x 8 drives
is 13.6 GB/s Read and 9.6 GB/s write, so with the controller my guess is I'll get about 15 GB/s Read and maybe hit 13 GB/s write. This was just to provide an example of where the speeds are coming from, I'm not insane needing storage speeds that fast. The Partner we do most of our sales for is VMware. Since I own the company I can stay home if I'd like to and still deploy VDIs and even DRaaS, as fast as clients demand them at times. Lots of fast storage and lots of Memory is needed for that. So, with the price of SATA6 SSDs, the low cost of a controller and because some companies now make what I'd call a 1U backplane, with a $150 8 drive SATS and SAS Backplane that gets rid of SATA cables, and uses what are called 8643 to 8643 SAS cables, two of them, 1 for every 4 drives, no different than any enterprise rack, in the long run, while they take a bit more work, they are the best and least expensive,

We tested a new Intel Optane 905P (an M.2 2280 stuck in a good looking PCIe x 4 case) and using Crystal I got no better than 2.7GB/s Read and 2.4 GB/s write, for 1GB, and I believe it lists at least $1,100. Only major difference I noticed is latency. It was almost 25-30% as fast as my current array. For 960GB it's also more than a dollar a GB, which us what SSDs were 8 years ago. I hope I helped with the speed question.

Cheers

Dean

[Rambler76]

Hi all,

I finally got this card to be recognised by my Asus Maximum IX Hero (Z270) after following the comments in this thread https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-in...orums/6?page=1

The card is installed in my Asus Maximus IX Hero motherboard in the SB PCI Slot in the bottom PCIEX4_3 slot. I'm also using a 7700K that has 16 lanes if that matters.

My PCIE slots are configured as follows:
PCIEX1_1 - USB3 Card
PCIEX16/8_1 - MS1 1080
PCEIEX1_2 - USB 3 Card
PCIEX8_2 - Empty. I tried the Thunderbolt EX3 in this slot using the NB PCI Slot option but the card hund the BIOS and I got a Q97 code and had to reset the BIOS.
PCIEX1_3 - Empty as its been disabled by the BIOS because if the PCIEX4_3 runs at X4 speed it disables this slot. Both slots can be active but the PCIEX4_3 will run at X2 speed.
PCIEX4_3 - Asus ThunderboltEX 3

The card shows up under the Thunderbolt software details tab and shows up under Device Manager as a System Device as 'Thunderbolt(TM) Controller - 1577'.

It doesn't populate the attached devices chain in the Thunderbolt software though.

The only problem is that it shows up as a hidden device with an error stating that is not connected to the computer.

When I use the Asus firmware adapter the card powers up and moves from a hidden state to an activate state in Device Manager > System Devices.

The attached devices chain in the Thunderbolt software then updates with 'Thunderbolt Controller 1' with 'Port 1' and 'Port 2'. Any ideas how to fix this?

It seems to be a power related issue as the card is recognised by Windows 10 x64 but doesn't power up to be able to be used.

I'm using the standard Asus software and drivers for this card and I've applied the Asus firmware update.

Thanks

[theShiZa]

Guys please save yourself the headaches & hassles affiliated with ASUS's TB3 cards. After MUCH research & wasted time, I bought a Gigabyte Alpine Ridge "rev 2.0" (https://www.gigabyte.com/au/Motherbo...IDGE-rev-20#ov) & it works FLAWLESSLY & even has two TB3 ports. Excellent. Has never dropped not even once, in BIOS or Windows. This is on my ASUS X99 Deluxe II motherboard BTW which came with ASUS's crappy TB3 card which I pleasantly urinated on.

Also PLEASE keep in mind when using Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 3, the only way to achieve its max rated speed of 40Gbs\s is to use a (passive) TB 3 cable in 50cm's length MAX, which not many people know this. As soon as the cable is over 50cm's the speed gets reduced to 20Gbs\s MAX (which is TB"2" MAX speed), this is the official specs of TB3. If you need longer than 50cm's & maintain the max speed of 40Gbs\s then you have to buy "active" TB3 cables which are 2 meters max. Star Tech make good ones from my experience.

Thunderbolt "2" MAX speed is 20Gbs\s with "passive" cable length being 3 meters MAX.

If you want longer than 2 meters for full TB3 40Gbs\s speed then there's active TB3 Optical cables which can go much further distance & keep the max speed.
The ONLY "passive" TB3 cable I've seen & know of which is longer than 50cm's & still retains the max speed are Apple's TB3 80cm cables.

I even have a TB2 to TB3 adapter for an external sound card I'm using plugged into my Gigabyte Alpine Ridge 2.0 & works flawlessy & still have a free TB3 port on it ready to go. Though you want to make sure you have your PCI-E slot that the Gigabyte Alpine Ridge 2.0 is plugged into is configured at "x8" IF you're planning to use both the TB3 ports as each TB3 port needs "x4" speed PCI-E 3.0 lanes. If not planning to use both TB3 ports on it then configuring the slot as "x4" speed is also perfect.

The reputation of the ASUS TB3 cards are really ugly world-wide from Germany to America as a quick google search will show. Even when people have got it to work, there's a 50/50 chance it'll stop in a few months as reported many times or just randomly drops out whatever is connected to it, extremely frustrating.

But now I'm a VERY happy boy.

[sammartin21]

Enjoy a lot when i am tired of work. I am working as a writer at research paper topics

[Rambler76]

Guys please save yourself the headaches & hassles affiliated with ASUS's TB3 cards. After MUCH research & wasted time, I bought a Gigabyte Alpine Ridge "rev 2.0" (https://www.gigabyte.com/au/Motherbo...IDGE-rev-20#ov) & it works FLAWLESSLY & even has two TB3 ports. Excellent. Has never dropped not even once, in BIOS or Windows. This is on my ASUS X99 Deluxe II motherboard BTW which came with ASUS's crappy TB3 card which I pleasantly urinated on.

What I found with my ROG Maximus IX Hero was that Asus removed all of the complete Thunderbolt BIOS settings about 3-4 BIOS revisions back for some bizarre reason and left only basic settings.*

What this meant was that with using the latest BIOS it was impossible to get the card to work unless you used a two year old BIOS.*

Why they would do this I don’t know, but I wasted countless hours trying to get it to work and ended up selling it in the end.*
*
I’ve heard people have had a lot of success with the Gigabyte card but I’m concerned it won’t work on my MB which only has basic Thunderbolt settings.
*
With the Gigabyte Alpine Ridge 2 card, are you using it with the latest BIOS on your MB?

Also has Asus limited the Thunderbolt options in the latest BIOS like they have with my MB?

Thanks*

[theShiZa]

What I found with my ROG Maximus IX Hero was that Asus removed all of the complete Thunderbolt BIOS settings about 3-4 BIOS revisions back for some bizarre reason and left only basic settings.*

What this meant was that with using the latest BIOS it was impossible to get the card to work unless you used a two year old BIOS.*

Why they would do this I don’t know, but I wasted countless hours trying to get it to work and ended up selling it in the end.*
*
I’ve heard people have had a lot of success with the Gigabyte card but I’m concerned it won’t work on my MB which only has basic Thunderbolt settings.
*
With the Gigabyte Alpine Ridge 2 card, are you using it with the latest BIOS on your MB?

Also has Asus limited the Thunderbolt options in the latest BIOS like they have with my MB?

Thanks*

Hi there.

Yes I've used it with BIOS 1802, & now with their latest BETA BIOS 2101, even the in between BIOS of 1902 is still considered BETA so BIOS 1802 is the latest non-BETA BIOS.

I cannot really guarantee anything on your particular motherboard but if you're not in rush with deadlines, I reckon buy it from a place that allows returns & try it for like a week straight or so. The ASUS Thunderbolt cards have a VERY ugly reputation.

Regarding if BIOS settings for Thunderbolt being limited, go to the following clip on youtube & you'll see EXACTLY the BIOS settings I've had since BIOS 1802 & my current BETA BIOS 2101. When the youtube clip transitions to the 2nd screen (7 seconds in), you will see the option "Reserved IO per phy slot" which has a value of "20". That is the very last option in the BIOS 1802 & 2101's Thunderbolt section's settings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbT-79vF7eA

If you do settle with a Gigabyte Alpine Ridge, you might as well get the newer "Revision 2.0" rather than the older 1.0.

The following link (out of MANY) will show you the headaches people have with ASUS's Thunderbolt cards which instantly made my mind up to not even bother with them & where I first heard about Gigabyte's Alpine Ridge 2.0 card.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-in...us-x99-mb.html

@Dean@ERPSAA!

By the way thank you for taking the time to post your details & experience regarding drive speeds & stats, very interesting read, much appreciated.

@HelloKitty Also thanks for taking the time also to post your experiences & suggestions/advice with these thunderbolt cards & the Gigabyte Alpine Ridge.

Cheerz.

[DigitalMetal]

To anyone who switched from the Asus EX3 to the Gigabyte Alpine Ridge, have you been able to get more than one to work on the Alpine ridge?
Only one of the two will work for me so this isn't good, I was able to get the one TB and one USB 3.1 port both working on the EX3 card but it was a little intermittent and got the AR card hoping to have two working ports.
I'm using the latest NUC TB drivers from intel and one port works just fine but not the second.

[theShiZa]

To anyone who switched from the Asus EX3 to the Gigabyte Alpine Ridge, have you been able to get more than one to work on the Alpine ridge?
Only one of the two will work for me so this isn't good, I was able to get the one TB and one USB 3.1 port both working on the EX3 card but it was a little intermittent and got the AR card hoping to have two working ports.
I'm using the latest NUC TB drivers from intel and one port works just fine but not the second.

Hi.

Sorry for the late reply almost forgot about this thread. I can't tell you because I literally only have 1 thunderbolt device so I can't check to see if both ports work at the same time. Do both ports work for your devices but just not at the same time? Or only the 1 same port works & never the other?