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  1. #1
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    I swore I wouldn't load any more beta BIOS -- ooops I did it again: 9945

    [sigh] I really did say I wasn't trying the 994x bios any further. I had played with 9943 without much luck.

    But I saw a guy with basically the same RAM I have (Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD16GX4M2B3200C16) that has the e-die chips and he posted some shots from Thaiphoon Burner that had me thinking. He was able to use the actually speed strapping for his RAM with no Bclk overclock. I've never been able to make that work on any BIOS.

    Left the CPU at default (no overclock), set the memory voltages and tried it with the 3200 strap. Fail. Looked to see if the standard memory timings from my chip set had loaded. No, changed the strap to 2133, changed it back to 3200 and it still wasn't 16-18-18-18-36 like it should be but was 15-15-15-15-34. Strange.

    Set the proper "standard" timings manually. Fail again. But the new BIOS gives you access to other timings and I began to suspect they aren't being read from my chips right either.

    So I looked at Thaiphoon for my set and got some info printed out. First off Thaiphoon doesn't know what type of Samsung die is. I know it's e-die from other sources.

    Looking at the last page of the Thaiphoon report I'm looking a a bunch of timings that you couldn't access in previous BIOS. I noticed that the following timings mentioned in Thaiphoon are available (although they have like SM after them) in the Crosshair memory timings. Here is what they were in Thaiphoon for my sticks.

    tRC (active to active refresh) = 54T
    tFAW (four activate window delay time) = 36T
    tRRD_S (short activate to activate delay time) = 6T
    tRRD_L (long activate to activate delay time) = 9T

    When I looked at those numbers in the BIOS they didn't match at all just like the basic timings didn't. So I manually set them to what was in Thaiphoon for my RAM.

    I also took a cue from what I've been reading over on overclock.net and set the new "Gear Down" mode to "disabled", set the command rate to 2T, and my ProcODT ended up optimum at 80 ohms this time. 1.4 volts on the DRAM at boot and running, 1.1 SOC and 1.05 SB.

    The result? RAM that boots cold or a restart with no issues at 3200. No Bclk overclock. All testing says it's good.

    Now is this a success? Yes and no.

    Yes, my DDR4 is running at 3200 mhz. But without access to those settings in the new BIOS I wouldn't.

    The real failure to my mind is this: Why can Thaiphoon burner easily read my timings but the Crosshair BIOS can't? Isn't reading the SPD data the most basic of functions? How is it that it can't read timings that it knows about already from a stick that has that data in it?

    The more I dig into this stuff, the more confused I am about the problems that are occuring. If I can read a report from a piece of FREEWARE for heaven's sake and put the numbers in why can't the BIOS? And why is Asus doing all this over on overclock rather than here? And does the stork really bring babies?

    Anyway, after the mem was fine I put the pstate overclock back in and it's all running well. 3.8 ghz cpu and full speed 3200 mhz memory. Feck any memory overclock I'm just glad to have it running reliably at spec.

    9945 has been the best BIOS so far with it's adjustability, but not it's adaptability. It still has no idea how to read the timings properly from a lot of memory sticks as shown by the folks having to tweak stuff the BIOS should handle with ease.

    Sheesh, Asus.
    Last edited by entropic-remnants; 05-22-2017 at 05:57 AM.
    Tired of trolls and mods that act like this platform has no problems and it's the users fault. Later.

  2. #2
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Demoniacstar PC Specs
    Demoniacstar PC Specs
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    ProcessorRyzen 1800x
    Memory (part number)tdrgd4 16g3000hc16cdc01
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropic-remnants View Post
    [sigh] I really did say I wasn't trying the 994x bios any further. I had played with 9943 without much luck.

    But I saw a guy with basically the same RAM I have (Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD16GX4M2B3200C16) that has the e-die chips and he posted some shots from Thaiphoon Burner that had me thinking. He was able to use the actually speed strapping for his RAM with no Bclk overclock. I've never been able to make that work on any BIOS.

    Left the CPU at default (no overclock), set the memory voltages and tried it with the 3200 strap. Fail. Looked to see if the standard memory timings from my chip set had loaded. No, changed the strap to 2133, changed it back to 3200 and it still wasn't 16-18-18-18-36 like it should be but was 15-15-15-15-34. Strange.

    Set the proper "standard" timings manually. Fail again. But the new BIOS gives you access to other timings and I began to suspect they aren't being read from my chips right either.

    So I looked at Thaiphoon for my set and got some info printed out. First off Thaiphoon doesn't know what type of Samsung die is. I know it's e-die from other sources.

    Looking at the last page of the Thaiphoon report I'm looking a a bunch of timings that you couldn't access in previous BIOS. I noticed that the following timings mentioned in Thaiphoon are available (although they have like SM after them) in the Crosshair memory timings. Here is what they were in Thaiphoon for my sticks.

    tRC (active to active refresh) = 54T
    tFAW (four activate window delay time) = 36T
    tRRD_S (short activate to activate delay time) = 6T
    tRRD_L (long activate to activate delay time) = 9T

    When I looked at those numbers in the BIOS they didn't match at all just like the basic timings didn't. So I manually set them to what was in Thaiphoon for my RAM.

    I also took a cue from what I've been reading over on overclock.net and set the new "Gear Down" mode to "disabled", set the command rate to 2T, and my ProcODT ended up optimum at 80 ohms this time. 1.4 volts on the DRAM at boot and running, 1.1 SOC and 1.05 SB.

    The result? RAM that boots cold or a restart with no issues at 3200. No Bclk overclock. All testing says it's good.

    Now is this a success? Yes and no.

    Yes, my DDR4 is running at 3200 mhz. But without access to those settings in the new BIOS I wouldn't.

    The real failure to my mind is this: Why can Thaiphoon burner easily read my timings but the Crosshair BIOS can't? Isn't reading the SPD data the most basic of functions? How is it that it can't read timings that it knows about already from a stick that has that data in it?

    The more I dig into this stuff, the more confused I am about the problems that are occuring. If I can read a report from a piece of FREEWARE for heaven's sake and put the numbers in why can't the BIOS? And why is Asus doing all this over on overclock rather than here? And does the stork really bring babies?

    Anyway, after the mem was fine I put the pstate overclock back in and it's all running well. 3.8 ghz cpu and full speed 3200 mhz memory. Feck any memory overclock I'm just glad to have it running reliably at spec.

    9945 has been the best BIOS so far with it's adjustability, but not it's adaptability. It still has no idea how to read the timings properly from a lot of memory sticks as shown by the folks having to tweak stuff the BIOS should handle with ease.

    Sheesh, Asus.
    so i also looked at this ..thanks for bringing it to light ... i use Aida64 for every thing ...cuz i dont like several programs to do the same thing....
    and the company behind aida64 just rocks ....
    but i checked out this other timings and it seems my ram also has wrong timings in every thing else
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ram timings.JPG 
Views:	26 
Size:	174.3 KB 
ID:	64750
    i am going to go reset all these to the right settings and see what happens
    edit/update ...i looked into these other settings ...and as i suspected it worked janky for my ram ....
    most all settings took ..cept im running my main timings tighter then XMP 3000 profile suggests so i think that's a plus
    i also took a look at TRFC-TRFC2-TRFC4...in bios those settings are much more tighter then the xmp timings suggest upon changing them just those three to xmp timings i could not boot.............i set them back to the lower settings they were auto tuned to...
    im going to see what happens and how things look going even lower on those timings....
    Last edited by Demoniacstar; 05-22-2017 at 07:16 AM.

  3. #3
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    I keep hearing about AIDA64 and I need to look into it. It's one suite for this stuff I've never tried. Good luck with those timings!

    I didn't touch some of the timings because I wasn't entirely sure of the nomenclature. If/when I finally try to overclock this RAM I will likely hit it then.
    Tired of trolls and mods that act like this platform has no problems and it's the users fault. Later.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demoniacstar View Post
    so i also looked at this ..thanks for bringing it to light ... i use Aida64 for every thing ...cuz i dont like several programs to do the same thing....
    and the company behind aida64 just rocks ....
    but i checked out this other timings and it seems my ram also has wrong timings in every thing else
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ram timings.JPG 
Views:	26 
Size:	174.3 KB 
ID:	64750
    i am going to go reset all these to the right settings and see what happens
    edit/update ...i looked into these other settings ...and as i suspected it worked janky for my ram ....
    most all settings took ..cept im running my main timings tighter then XMP 3000 profile suggests so i think that's a plus
    i also took a look at TRFC-TRFC2-TRFC4...in bios those settings are much more tighter then the xmp timings suggest upon changing them just those three to xmp timings i could not boot.............i set them back to the lower settings they were auto tuned to...
    im going to see what happens and how things look going even lower on those timings....
    Allrighty then. I bought AIDA64 Extreme -- some of the best $40 I've spent.

    I also redid those other timings you mentioned and my memory is singing now. For me, setting those made things better and not worse but every stick of memory is it's own little universe I've decided.

    Thread on the overall result and process here: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthrea...16-Up-to-Speed
    Tired of trolls and mods that act like this platform has no problems and it's the users fault. Later.

  5. #5
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array syldon PC Specs
    syldon PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus crosshair VII
    Processor2700X
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    I looked at buying this "aida64 extreme". I looked at the version options with the comparison page, it states that the extreme version does not look at dram timings?

    https://www.aida64.com/compare-aida64-features

    The only reason I would buy this is for dram timings to configure my memory.

    Can you throw some light on this before I purchase, cheers.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by syldon View Post
    I looked at buying this "aida64 extreme". I looked at the version options with the comparison page, it states that the extreme version does not look at dram timings?

    https://www.aida64.com/compare-aida64-features

    The only reason I would buy this is for dram timings to configure my memory.

    Can you throw some light on this before I purchase, cheers.
    Well, if you just want to see the timings stored in the data on your ram sticks, the free version of Thaiphoon Burner is what I use.

    In order to set the timings, you would need something that can talk to the BIOS.

    I used AIDA64 to verify my system and it found weaknesses I didn't find with good old Prime95. Did you look at my other thread as well? It will do good testing of your memory and cache speed, and it does give you a lot of information on your system. Actually you don't need Thaiphoon Burner though I think the information is clearer in the report Thaiphoon supplies.

    Here's what AIDA64 says about the data in SPD on my memory sticks:Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AidaMemory.png 
Views:	9 
Size:	124.1 KB 
ID:	64826

    All the information I needed was there as well. Just easier to read in Thaiphoon.
    Tired of trolls and mods that act like this platform has no problems and it's the users fault. Later.

  7. #7
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Demoniacstar PC Specs
    Demoniacstar PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)none
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    ProcessorRyzen 1800x
    Memory (part number)tdrgd4 16g3000hc16cdc01
    Graphics Card #1XFX R9 390/ EK water block OC'd
    Graphics Card #2XFX R9 390/ EK water block OC'd
    Sound Cardon board
    Monitor2X 24" veiwsonic 1080p/ 55"Samsung 4k curved
    Storage #1Samsung evo 840, 250gig sys drive
    Storage #25 other mixed hdd's
    CPU CoolerEK C6H mono block
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    Quote Originally Posted by syldon View Post
    I looked at buying this "aida64 extreme". I looked at the version options with the comparison page, it states that the extreme version does not look at dram timings?

    https://www.aida64.com/compare-aida64-features

    The only reason I would buy this is for dram timings to configure my memory.

    Can you throw some light on this before I purchase, cheers.
    if you look at that pic in my last post you will see ram timings......as reported by Aida64 extreme

  8. #8
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    I know, right -- it's just that for people with less technical bent it's much easier to read the Thaiphoon Burner report. But the AIDA is very compact. But that's why I tell people who maybe are struggling with this to get it in Thaiphoon.

    Thanks for the input and you're one of the people who pushed me into buying AIDA64 and I don't regret it.
    Tired of trolls and mods that act like this platform has no problems and it's the users fault. Later.

  9. #9
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Demoniacstar PC Specs
    Demoniacstar PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)none
    MotherboardAsus Crosshair VI Hero
    ProcessorRyzen 1800x
    Memory (part number)tdrgd4 16g3000hc16cdc01
    Graphics Card #1XFX R9 390/ EK water block OC'd
    Graphics Card #2XFX R9 390/ EK water block OC'd
    Sound Cardon board
    Monitor2X 24" veiwsonic 1080p/ 55"Samsung 4k curved
    Storage #1Samsung evo 840, 250gig sys drive
    Storage #25 other mixed hdd's
    CPU CoolerEK C6H mono block
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    Mouse R.A.T. 9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demoniacstar View Post
    if you look at that pic in my last post you will see ram timings......as reported by Aida64 extreme
    i don't push...lol....
    i just happen to think its worth it ....i do enough messing around with pc's that i wanted a AIO stressing and mem tool just like this...
    and it just does things very well..
    i use aida64 extreme every day and voltage tuning using aida64's cache mem test is awesome ....and fast....and if your numbers are high in aida64 you numbers are high in other things to.....but there's a few that dislike it ....

  10. #10
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array syldon PC Specs
    syldon PC Specs
    MotherboardAsus crosshair VII
    Processor2700X
    Memory (part number)G.Skill Trident Z 32GB DDR4 F4-4000C18Q-32GTZKW running at 3466 14-14-14-28
    Graphics Card #1MSI 1080
    Graphics Card #2MSI 1080
    Sound Cardon board
    MonitorAsus PB287Q X 2
    Storage #1480gb M2 samsung m961
    Storage #21tb 850 evo and 2tb 850 evo
    CPU Coolercorsair hydro 110i
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    Thanks for the response. I didn't grab the trail, because it says it is a cut down version, which will only show a portion of the full report. I'll grab the trail tonight when I get in, and see if I can make out what I need. I will also look at Thaiphoon, I didn't look at this before because of what you said about Aida.

    And yes I did read your previous post. It filled in a lot of gaps about where to find out what all the abbreviations are for in the extreme tweaker section. I am stuck at 2720 on my 3200 spec memory. It would be nice to have it sorted so I don't need to chase bios revisions and just use the board.

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