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  1. #41
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Brighttail PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moloch View Post
    From what I have read around the interwebs (not personal experience)...

    You can run a bootable drive using hardware/software raid in the M.2 slots, but the speed is limited to ~3500MB/s read, ~3000MB/s write.
    If you had 2x samsung 960 evo (3200 read, 1900 write) in this array, you would hit max speeds of ~3500/3000 (+10% /+60%)
    If you had 2x samsung 960 pro,(3500 read, 2100 write), the gain would be minimal (+0% / +40%)
    Realistically, you get a bit higher write speed increase because the videos I see typically show evo writing at ~1500 rather than the advertised 1900, so it doubles the write speed (read speed is as advertised so very little increase)
    If you tried using 3-4 of either of these drives, it would likely slow things down a little instead of speeding them up
    I don't think this type of raid uses the CPU lanes at all, so it might even work with the 4-core CPUs

    VROC is new. I saw a video where a guy gets 11870MB/s read speed and ~8GB write from 4x samsung 960 pro using a PCIe card (VROC?) from dell (not bootable?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wICTa4I-lg
    So there is hope of using 3rd party cards in the future, even if not bootable

    It does seem strange to not allow VROC as a bootable/OS drive.

    It isn't just the Apex either, all the Asus x299 motherboard manuals say "Due to hardware design, your motherboard does NOT support CPU RAID configurations as OS Drives."
    That is so unfortunate. On the x99 I can get close to 7k on RAID 0 as a Applications drive. I'm guessing I'll use one 960 pro for the boot drive and put 2 others in RAID 0 using VROC as an App drive. I think that is going to be the best possible setup with what i have.

    It is really a shame that a bootable RAID drive is limited to 3.5GB/s reads but a non-bootable drive (as on the x99 and apparently with VROC) has no such limitations. Or unless you use Intel drives. :/
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  2. #42
    ROG Guru: White Belt Array Moloch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brighttail View Post
    That is so unfortunate. On the x99 I can get close to 7k on RAID 0 as a Applications drive. I'm guessing I'll use one 960 pro for the boot drive and put 2 others in RAID 0 using VROC as an App drive. I think that is going to be the best possible setup with what i have.

    It is really a shame that a bootable RAID drive is limited to 3.5GB/s reads but a non-bootable drive (as on the x99 and apparently with VROC) has no such limitations. Or unless you use Intel drives. :/
    I took another look at the manuals, and the only one which does not contain the phrase is the deluxe, which instead says "If you plan on using the CPU RAID configuration spanned across different PCIE slots as OS drives, please install the Hyper M.2 X16 Cards to PCIEX16_2 (x4 mode) and PCIEX16_4 (x8 mode) slots."
    http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/..._UM_V2_WEB.pdf

    Oddly, the TUF mk2 and Prime-A manuals contain both phrases, which seem contradictory

    Why would it say you can't use VROC as an OS device on page 4-6, then say you can use CPU RAID as an OS device on page 4-10?
    Isn't that the same thing?

    Perhaps some clarification is needed
    Last edited by Moloch; 08-04-2017 at 09:36 PM.

  3. #43
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Brighttail PC Specs
    Brighttail PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G751JT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moloch View Post
    I took another look at the manuals, and the only one which does not contain the phrase is the deluxe, which instead says "If you plan on using the CPU RAID configuration spanned across different PCIE slots as OS drives, please install the Hyper M.2 X16 Cards to PCIEX16_2 (x4 mode) and PCIEX16_4 (x8 mode) slots."
    http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/..._UM_V2_WEB.pdf

    Oddly, the TUF mk2 and Prime-A manuals contain both phrases, which seem contradictory

    Why would it say you can't use VROC as an OS device on page 4-6, then say you can use CPU RAID as an OS device on page 4-10?
    Isn't that the same thing?

    Perhaps some clarification is needed
    I think they are being vague because at any time Intel may change their mind about bootable 3rd party VROC. Having two drives on one PCI-e card, DIMM.2 makes sense if you are using VROC/bootable. You want them sharing and on the same channel.
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  4. #44
    ROG Guru: White Belt Array Moloch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brighttail View Post
    I think they are being vague because at any time Intel may change their mind about bootable 3rd party VROC. Having two drives on one PCI-e card, DIMM.2 makes sense if you are using VROC/bootable. You want them sharing and on the same channel.
    It sounds like the Apex just became available, so hopefully we get some 1st hand accounts soon.

    I found it listed on a British site for 430 pounds. The same site lists rog strix for 315, so I'm guessing this will convert to ~$475 USD for the Apex (and ~$650 for the RVIE)

    I kinda hoped the Apex would be closer to $350 since it doesn't appear to have much that the rog strix doesn't have. Maybe I am missing something?

  5. #45
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Brighttail PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moloch View Post
    It sounds like the Apex just became available, so hopefully we get some 1st hand accounts soon.

    I found it listed on a British site for 430 pounds. The same site lists rog strix for 315, so I'm guessing this will convert to ~$475 USD for the Apex (and ~$650 for the RVIE)

    I kinda hoped the Apex would be closer to $350 since it doesn't appear to have much that the rog strix doesn't have. Maybe I am missing something?
    Apex is designed for overclocking and pushing the limit of your hardware. The Strix is not.
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  6. #46
    ROG Guru: White Belt Array Moloch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brighttail View Post
    Apex is designed for overclocking and pushing the limit of your hardware. The Strix is not.
    I suppose so, but what does that entail?

    Is the extra $125 mostly research and development, or is there more cost because it is reinforced for LN2 or something?

    It doesn't come with any nifty cards, VROC key, etc listed in the accessories... I really don't see why it costs more than rog strix. It has 4 fewer RAM slots, an extra DIMM.2 instead of M.2, and a 4th PCIe slot that I'll never use... rog strix even comes with a VROC key (assuming $25-50 just for that)

    I run water cooling, so I wouldn't need a LN2 specific board. I wouldn't ever have 4 video cards in a system, maybe 1-2 video and 1 PCIe slot for VROC (PCIe speed seems faster than M.2 NVMe, though I don't know if the DIMM.2 has more bandwidth than regular M.2)

    I like the idea of faster overclocking, and trying to talk myself into the Apex, but if I'm only going to get an extra 2-3% overclock for $125 (+35% cost for 2% speed?)... I'm having a hard time justifying the extra expense into my budget
    Last edited by Moloch; 08-05-2017 at 02:27 AM.

  7. #47
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Brighttail PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moloch View Post
    I suppose so, but what does that entail?

    Is the extra $125 mostly research and development, or is there more cost because it is reinforced for LN2 or something?

    It doesn't come with any nifty cards, VROC key, etc listed in the accessories... I really don't see why it costs more than rog strix. It has 4 fewer RAM slots, an extra DIMM.2 instead of M.2, and a 4th PCIe slot that I'll never use... rog strix even comes with a VROC key (assuming $25-50 just for that)

    I run water cooling, so I wouldn't need a LN2 specific board. I wouldn't ever have 4 video cards in a system, maybe 1-2 video and 1 PCIe slot for VROC (PCIe speed seems faster than M.2 NVMe, though I don't know if the DIMM.2 has more bandwidth than regular M.2)

    I like the idea of faster overclocking, and trying to talk myself into the Apex, but if I'm only going to get an extra 2-3% overclock for $125 (+35% cost for 2% speed?)... I'm having a hard time justifying the extra expense into my budget
    For starters it only has 4 memory channels instead of 8. That extra bandwidth is put apparently in to OC the CPU. The two DIMM.2 has one set for the CPU vroc and other chipset so that is up to 4 m.2s and extra slot than the others. I think it looks better than the strix.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So this is a very old picture but the nice thing with the APEX is i can use these fans to cool the RAM and DIMM.2 on each side of the APEX. They are full RGB and with the Corsair commander pro, it runs all my fans.
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  8. #48
    ROG Guru: Gold Belt Array Menthol PC Specs
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    Although the Apex will work for almost any user it is a specialty board with less sells than other boards which means less boards manufactured the more each board costs to produce, and yes more manhours spent on R&D, special overclocking presets etc. = more work in the bios

  9. #49
    ROG Guru: White Belt Array jpmboy PC Specs
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    I think the APEX is quad channel memory (when using a proper cpu ;-) ) with one dimm per channel. The post above by brighttail is a quad channel with 2 dimms per channel configuration.

  10. #50
    ROG Guru: White Belt Array Moloch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brighttail View Post
    For starters it only has 4 memory channels instead of 8. That extra bandwidth is put apparently in to OC the CPU.
    This is a feature I like about the Apex. I don't plan to fill 8 RAM slots, so 4 works for me. But, I don't believe there is "extra bandwidth" to be put towards OC the CPU...

    The RAM pathways on the motherboard are shorter because they only need half as many copper lines, which lets you squeeze a *little* more OC from the RAM. I don't believe this would affect the CPU overclock unless the RAM is somehow slowing down the CPU. Normally the limiting factor for CPU overclock is heat displacement

    I also like the improved VRM heatsink because temps might be an issue with x299 boards under heavy load.

    I like the dual bios chips because that saved me while overclocking my R4E.

    I don't like that the manual says VROC won't be bootable (not that I "need" more than 3.5GB/s read/write for a windows drive, but... ya know, future happens). I believe there was also something about having to put all SATA on RAID if RAID is on. Does that mean I can't even use 1x NVMe for windows and 2+ in a raid drive for apps/games? (not really sure if this is referring to M.2/NVMe or just SATA)

    I'm looking for a motherboard that will stick with me for 5+ years like my RIVE. I plan to upgrade the CPU eventually, assuming the 2066 format sticks around for a generation or 3. But if I can't upgrade my SSD storage to VROC in the future, that could be the dealbreaker...I suppose it's a lot to consider
    Last edited by Moloch; 08-07-2017 at 04:37 AM.

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