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  1. #1301
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    Quote Originally Posted by DashTrash View Post
    I had never thought to use hemostats for pc building. I don't have the extensive pc history that many of you have, but I was going to the junkyard to pull heater cores out of wrecked cars back in the late 90's for watercooling and have been building ever since. I can't count the times those hemostats would have come in handy over the years. Or a nice set of screwdrivers. But wow, those are spendy! I'll have to look if you can get a nice set of bits in a good case. The one I bought at Lowes doesn't have a good case to hold the bits.

    I missed what chip most of you plan to use in the board. Isn't the full line of i9's out next week? The 7920x from Silicon Lottery looks great, but the costs just get so high. Would be super cool to have 12 or more cores running above 4.5ghz. But I'll have to wait to see what the coffee lake/z370 boards are like before I decide. But sure enjoy watching this thread!
    I plan to use two 7900X and one 7940X CPUs for three R6E workstation builds. I already have two 7900X, just waiting on the 7940X and I pre-ordered three EK monoblocks. Back in June, I was thinking of doing two 7980XE workstation builds for 36 cores of processing power, but when I looked at the specs and considered my intended video and photo processing use, I will get far better CPU and I/O throughout with a 10+10+14 34-core 3-PC setup than with two 7980XE workstations. I look at it like a hotel with three washers and dryers. The 7940X will be the main washer/dryer. But when I have 2000 to 3000 high-res digital RAW photos and several dozen 4K videos to process, I use all three PCs connected through a KVM switch to load-balance and process in parallel. The 7980XE would give me bragging rights on benchmarks, but I am not using these on a test bench to run benchmarks every week. And just as you get rapidly diminishing returns if you use gaming software on more than 6 or 8 cores, the performance of all of the photo and video processing software out there tapers off as you go beyond 10 or 12 cores. And as I mentioned in a previous post, if you are mainly doing a gaming-only build, the 6-core 8700K will become the best gaming CPU.

    When you compare the 12C 7920X, 14C 7940X, 16C 7960X, 18C 7980XE, the 7940X also hits the sweet spot for performance and value of the four HCC i9s. The 7940X has a higher base freq, a higher Max Turbo freq, and along with a higher T-Junction temperature tolerance that is 8 degrees-C higher than the 7980XE, I think it will also have the highest overclocking headroom and best single-core performance for a $1400 price, compared to $1700 and $2000 for the 14C and 18C:

    https://ark.intel.com/compare/126240...,126697,126699

    The "XE" in the 7980XE just gives you two more cores and a little more cache than the 7960X, but it has no unique features compared to the other i9 "X" CPUs.

    The Snap-On Tools magnetic ratcheting screwdrivers are expensive, but I think they are worth it. Their strong magnet is housed in the screwdriver shaft, so they can use any standard hex-shaped bit driver set with non-magnetized bits and the bits become magnetized. Many of the cheaper magnetized screwdrivers do not use a strong magnet or have a flimsy ratcheting mechanism. I bought two shorter and two longer Snap-On ratcheting screwdrivers about 14 to 16 years ago, and they are still going strong while I use them for everything from building PCs, to building furniture, to working on my car engine or car interior, to doing household repairs. If you combine the Snap-On screwdriver with several diverse bit driver sets, you can modify PC cases, mobos, laptops, furniture, car engines, etc, etc.

    Surgical hemostats are also extremely useful for PC building and other uses. Do what I do and get two straight hemostats and two curved hemostats. Sometimes I need to use all four hemostats at the same time. They can function like forceps or tweezers, and they can function like clamps. Straight and curved ceramic tweezers are also useful if you do lots of soldering. I use my ceramic tweezers for PC building, soldering of electronics, and soldering of stained glass projects.

    I can thank my fellow UT student and IBM co-worker, Jennifer, for using her hemostat roach clip as part of her mobo repair work at IBM, which I then also used, and IBM bought them for all their PC techs, some of whom probably also used it for... herbal recreation. She carried her hemostat in her purse all the time. Another quick story about Jennifer, and AMD...

    I originally had another person seated at the QA station next to me. One day, IBM moved some workers around, and Jennifer sat next to me. We sat at two of the six QA stations that provided the final detailed quality inspection before the mobos were put through wave-soldering. It turns out that Jennifer was one of several hundred workers that AMD laid off throughout the mid-1980s. AMD had a 17-year policy of no layoffs prior to their first layoffs. To avoid publicizing that they were laying off employees, AMD referred to it as the "firing" of several hundred employees. AMD also had an office just down the street from IBM in Austin, and IBM hired some of the engineers and technicians that AMD "fired". In talking with the former AMD workers that IBM hired, many were very angry at AMD for saying that they were being fired just so AMD could appear to continue their no-layoffs policy. But most of the media coverage still referred to AMD's actions correctly as a mass-layoff. Being fired has a huge stigma usually associated with poor performance or behavioral issues. Being laid off is often just associated with companies cutting costs and restructuring. Intel has their anti-competitive tactics, but AMD is also no angel, and AMD has had lawsuits thrown at them over the past three decades for making various false promises to customers. There were other pretty UT co-eds working in the IBM PC plant that I worked in, which was as big as a cavernous aircraft hangar, but I think Jennifer was one of the prettiest students that IBM hired, after AMD "fired" her. I told her that she looked like Rebecca DeMornay in the 1983 movie "Risky Business", not as a pick-up line since I knew she had a boyfriend and she knew I had a girlfriend and we would all go out for dinner and clubbing after work on Friday nights, but her face and physique really did look like DeMornay. I was seated six feet from her QA station and she smelled nice too ;-) I joked that IBM should put a "Do Not Disturb" sign at her QA station because guys were constantly coming up to her table to talk. LOL

  2. #1302
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPurr View Post
    ...Back in June, I was thinking of doing two 7980XE workstation builds for 36 cores of processing power, but when I looked at the specs and considered my intended video and photo processing use, I will get far better CPU and I/O throughout with a 10+10+14 34-core 3-PC setup than with two 7980XE workstations...
    Interesting. I plan on getting a single 7980XE for video and raw photo processing. What do you see bottle necking an 18 core processor that would lead to better throughput with fewer cores across multiple machines? Is it disk I/O? Would 18 core saturate dual 960 SSD's in your workflow?

  3. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexPeterson View Post
    Interesting. I plan on getting a single 7980XE for video and raw photo processing. What do you see bottle necking an 18 core processor that would lead to better throughput with fewer cores across multiple machines? Is it disk I/O? Would 18 core saturate dual 960 SSD's in your workflow?
    Video and photo software would not bottleneck 18 cores. But none of the software out there, including Adobe's Premiere Pro, Photoshop, and all of Adobe's other software, which tends to be more optimized for more cores than many other imaging packages, can make full use of 18 cores compared to if you process the same files using 14, 12, or maybe even 10 cores. The same goes for all other imaging software that I use, including Dxo OpticsPro with all the Prime noise reduction parameters turned on, Photomatix HDR processing, etc. The bulk of my I/O will happen on 32-GB of Ram Disk on all three builds that use 64-GB of RAM. So I take 2000 or 3000 RAW photos from a Canon 5D Mark IV along with 4K videos from a Canon C100 and I do "manual load balancing" by dividing up files onto one, two, or three PCs, depending on how many files I need to process, and that kind of parallel processing will run faster than just one or two 18-core builds, again because the software cannot make good use of 36 threads. Maybe that will change five years from now, but I also seriously doubt that all my various software packages will be that multi-thread-optimized five years from now.

    Edited to add: Optimizing the utilization of 20, 28, or 36 threads requires careful software development practices. And as you add more threading, you often increase the possibility of race conditions, concurrency issues, deadlocks, and livelocks, all of which can cause problems in the software. From a software development perspective, deadlocks are easier to debug if you can get a stack trace while the software is deadlocked. Livelocks are more difficult. And race conditions can be extremely difficult and time-consuming to debug and fix. Two-thirds of my work experience has been in high-performance computing environments in scientific applications, including supercomputing environments. For example, in processing terabytes of seismic data, we have to create lots of threads to try to reduce processing times that can take several days of non-stop computing. But for consumer software, companies tend to look at effort-to-reward ratio, and thus they mostly optimize for quad-core CPUs for gaming, and 8 to 10 cores for video and photo software, because if Adobe tries to optimize their software for 36 threads, the risks of adding more hard-to-find multi-threading bugs also increases. So the 7980XE will still be faster than one 7900X, both on benchmarks and on actual applications. But with most consumer software out there, two 7900X CPUs doing parallel processing will be faster than one 7980XE. I am very sure that someone will build a 7980XE gaming-only PC with 128-GB RAM for bragging rights. But then someone will come along and build a Z370/8700K gaming rig with 16-GB RAM that outperforms the much more expensive 7980XE gaming rig, assuming both builds use the same one or two GPUs, again because gaming software cannot make use of tons of threads and RAM.
    Last edited by DragonPurr; 09-22-2017 at 09:14 PM.

  4. #1304
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    Thank you. "Dxo OpticsPro with all the Prime noise reduction parameters turned on" is my "poster child" for needing more cores. In your experience, how many cores/threads can it efficiently use? I had hoped that the Concurrent Image setting could be scaled to 36.

  5. #1305
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexPeterson View Post
    Thank you. "Dxo OpticsPro with all the Prime noise reduction parameters turned on" is my "poster child" for needing more cores. In your experience, how many cores/threads can it efficiently use? I had hoped that the Concurrent Image setting could be scaled to 36.
    Yep, the Prime denoising is a CPU-muncher, which was why I mentioned it. Photomatix HDR also has some a number of settings that chew up CPU time, especially since I sometimes twirl the knobs and iterate over 4 to 8 variations with some photos before deciding on the best one.

    Get the $2000 7980XE if you want to be wowed when running synthetic benchmarks. But get the 14-core $1400 7940X if you want photo/video software performance very similar to the 7980XE, and use the $600 that you saved on SSDs, faster RAM, or a nice vacation I describe in my post, four posts up, why I like the 7940X and am getting it myself. (Sorry for my verbosity, my wife and I are very talkative in person too)

    But even with DxO OpticsPro, the 7900X and 7920X will be nearly as fast as the 7940X. I just have a feeling that the 7940X will have better OC headroom and single-core performance when you compare the specs and how Intel has tuned that one particular CPU:

    https://ark.intel.com/compare/126240...,126697,126699

  6. #1306
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Brighttail PC Specs
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    Welp the Ek monoblock is on its way. I got the clear one mainly because the LED light flowing through everything.
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  7. #1307
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPurr View Post
    Yep, the Prime denoising is a CPU-muncher, which was why I mentioned it. Photomatix HDR also has some a number of settings that chew up CPU time, especially since I sometimes twirl the knobs and iterate over 4 to 8 variations with some photos before deciding on the best one.

    Get the $2000 7980XE if you want to be wowed when running synthetic benchmarks. But get the 14-core $1400 7940X if you want photo/video software performance very similar to the 7980XE, and use the $600 that you saved on SSDs, faster RAM, or a nice vacation I describe in my post, four posts up, why I like the 7940X and am getting it myself. (Sorry for my verbosity, my wife and I are very talkative in person too)

    But even with DxO OpticsPro, the 7900X and 7920X will be nearly as fast as the 7940X. I just have a feeling that the 7940X will have better OC headroom and single-core performance when you compare the specs and how Intel has tuned that one particular CPU:

    https://ark.intel.com/compare/126240...,126697,126699
    I agree with the assessment on the 7940X. Based on the specs that Intel has released, the 7940X seems to hit the sweet spot (for me anyway) for a machine that will primarily be used as a workstation but have occasional use playing games. I was originally going to get the 7920X, but after seeing the final 7940X specs it has a higher base frequency, better TJunction Max, and probably better OC headroom. Based on all this I had already decided to get the 7940X.

    In the meantime I have a 7800X that I am using to test my RVIE. Also, I am considering delidding and so the 7800X will be a "practice" chip for that, to see if I really want to delid a CPU that cost $1100 more....

  8. #1308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vislor72 View Post
    I agree with the assessment on the 7940X. Based on the specs that Intel has released, the 7940X seems to hit the sweet spot (for me anyway) for a machine that will primarily be used as a workstation but have occasional use playing games. I was originally going to get the 7920X, but after seeing the final 7940X specs it has a higher base frequency, better TJunction Max, and probably better OC headroom. Based on all this I had already decided to get the 7940X.

    In the meantime I have a 7800X that I am using to test my RVIE. Also, I am considering delidding and so the 7800X will be a "practice" chip for that, to see if I really want to delid a CPU that cost $1100 more....
    If you are going to delid your 7800X yourself, are you using a delidding tool (der8auer's tool has not been released yet), or a razor blade, or a chisel and bench vise, or....?

    Keep in mind that from the 7920X on up, the CPU die is about 40% to 50% larger than the die on the 7800X/7820X/7900X, so the bigger 7940X die is closer to the glue line under the IHS and the SMT resistors and capacitors are all very close to the glue line. It might be worth it to have SiliconLottery delid it for you.

  9. #1309
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Hopper64 PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPurr View Post
    To remove the PCH chipset cover, just unscrew the one visible screw that is located over the on-board M.2 slot's armor and located above the bottom PCIe slot. Once you remove that screw, the M.2 armor cover is attached to the black PCH cover and the whole thing lifts off easily as one piece.

    I looked at the two screw holes on my VRM heatsinks, and they don't have any blemishes there. Is that the only blemish you see? I scanned over my three mobos using a magnifying glass this afternoon and could not find any scratch, discoloration, or sign of use, even though the PCH cover on all three mobos had an polygonal smudge outline as if there used to be a plastic sheet lightly glued onto the cover, but someone removed the plastic sheet on the PCH cover on all the mobos.

    There are also 11 screws on the back of the mobo that would require you to possibly unscrew the mobo from your case's standoffs after you have installed it, depending upon how big your case's mobo tray cutout opening is:

    Two screws mount the VRM heatsink.
    Two screws, outlined in silver, mount the "Republic of Gamers" block.
    Two screws, outlined in silver, mount the I/O cover.
    Two screws mount the I/O cover's heatsink.
    One screw mounts the "SupremeFX" audio cover.
    Two screws, outlined in silver, mount the top part of the PCIe armor. You would need to remove these to replace the CMOS battery that is hidden under the top area of the PCIe armor. It would have been nice if these screws were accessible from the front of the mobo, but I understand why Asus put these two screws on the back for a clean look on the armor.

    Are there just 2 screws at the top of the armor covering the CMOS battery, or does the whole armor need to be removed? Thanks.
    *

  10. #1310
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array xarot PC Specs
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    The 7740X doesn't boot on R6E at all? Or just not a supported configuration? Would like to get one for pushing 5G clocks but not two mobos for that.
    Main: Xeon W-3175X - Dominus Extreme - 48 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3200 - Palit RTX2080TI H2O - Phanteks Enthoo Primo - Corsair AX1500i - Samsung 960 PRO 1 TB + Intel 600P 1TB
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