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  1. #11
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
    Accessory #1 TP-Link AC1900 Archer T9E, 1xPCIe
    Accessory #2 ASUS/Infineon SLB9635 TPM (TT1.2/FW3.19)
    Accessory #3 ASUS OC Panel I (FW0501)
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    Then I'm a mad man too. i7-7700K is only 4C/8T/8MB ... but where exactly are all (or any) of these demanding game titles which use 6 or 8 (or more) cores? Few games seem to actually require more than dual-core in their system specs, lol. Fewer still are code-optimized to run well across more cores. And game devs tend to build clients designed for (at most) a 4C/8T target "mainstream" market.

    Justin said it best above: when all else is equal then faster clock wins over more cores for gaming ... and having more cores is useless if they aren't being used for gaming.

    And it turns out that all else is not equal. At 4.2GHz~4.5GHz, the i7-7700K is currently the fastest Intel CPU ever made. Plus it generally overclocks to 5.0GHz+. Few 6C or 8C processors can overclock beyond 4.4GHz, let alone 5.0GHz. They'd "lose the game" vs their little Kaby Lake cousins.

    Although HEDT platforms (Intel X99/X299, AMD X399, etc) do have more than just more cores/threads. They have more memory channels (and bandwidth), more on-die cache, more PCIe3 lanes. All these things do help increase gaming performance. But not greatly. Gains from faster CPU are more noticeable. Gains from faster GPU(s) are far more noticeable.

    Other chipset functions between Z270/Z370/B350/X370 vs X99/X299/X399 don't really weigh heavily into gaming. Newer mobos always pack more new features - things like M.2 slots and great onboard audio and fastest USBs - it doesn't really matter which gaming mobo you buy, it'll have much the same collection of chipset (or addon) features as any other mobo released around the same time. HEDT-only features (like a couple dozen more SATA and USB ports) aren't specifically useful for gaming.

    Z270 is a good deal right now. Z370 mobos (and 4C/8T perhaps even 6C/12T Coffeelake) should be available Q3/2017 - yes, definitely better than Z270 (and 4C/8T Kabylake) but nobody really knows by how much (or at what cost). Z370 may not turn out to be enough of an upgrade to justify the bump up an exponential price ladder - or it may turn out to be phenomenally superior (though this seems unlikely, given incremental differences seen between past generations of Intel tech) - it may even turn out to be the only option available if Intel withdraws Z270 from the market.

    No sense thinking about upcoming platforms which aren't yet available. There's always something newer and better around the next corner, no matter when you buy. If you need a good gaming computer now then think in terms of what the tech can do for you right now.

  2. #12
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array davemon50 PC Specs
    davemon50 PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G752VY-DH72 (17") and Asus G752VT-DH74 (17")
    MotherboardAsus ROG LGA2011-v3 Rampage V Edition 10, x99 EATX
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-6950X Extreme 10-core 25MB Cache 3.0 GHz
    Memory (part number)Corsair Vengeance LPX Red DDR4 DRAM 64GB-4x16 3333 (CMK64GX4M4B3333C16R)
    Graphics Card #1Sapphire Nitro Radeon R9 Fury 4GB HBM Backplate
    Graphics Card #2Sapphire Nitro Radeon R9 Fury 4GB HBM Backplate
    Sound CardAsus SupremeFX Hi-Fi Audio DAC
    Monitor(2) Dell UltraSharp U2515H 25-inch monitors
    Storage #1(3) SSD's - Samsung 960 1TB M.2, Intel 535 480G, Intel 510 250G
    Storage #2(3) HDD's - Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5-in SATA III 64MB Cache
    CPU CoolerCorsair Hydro Series H80
    CaseCorsair Obsidian Series 650D Black, ATX, Mid Tower
    Power SupplyCorsair Digital AXi-Series AX1200i (1200W) 80+ Platinum Rating
    Keyboard Logitech Wireless K360
    Mouse Logitech Wireless MX Anywhere 2
    Headset HyperX Cloud II
    OS Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
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    If you also use your rig for business related calculations, some technical programs may be able to take advantage of multi-core better than games. But yeah even there in today's world, in general things such as computer energy modeling are currently limited to using single cores except some minor algorithms, or else running simultaneous simulations. Takes many many hours to run really complex simulations. CFD simulations might be an exception, but I'm guessing less than 10 registered users here have ever done one or plan to. Seems to boil down to faster clock like others have said. But hey if you do have 10 cores, since you at least get to choose the most efficient core, you get more chances for better results, lol.
    Davemon50

  3. #13
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
    Accessory #1 TP-Link AC1900 Archer T9E, 1xPCIe
    Accessory #2 ASUS/Infineon SLB9635 TPM (TT1.2/FW3.19)
    Accessory #3 ASUS OC Panel I (FW0501)
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    @davemon50

    Even then it's a balancing act. More cores always means slower clocks (and slower overclocks).

    Most prosumer folks just want as many cores and as much computing density as they can get. Some of them buy 28C/56T at 2GHz. They'd buy 56C/112T at 1GHz if such a thing existed.

    But some prosumer folks (like me) need enough cores multiplied by enough speed. I chose the fastest parts available (a couple years ago) which I could afford. X99 8C/16T at 4.4GHz, alongside 64GB DDR4-3200 (instead of, say, 2TB DDR4-2133). Bigger faster better is available now (and more is coming soon) but the question becomes whether I can "afford" to upgrade by paying a lot more to gain a little more.

    And there are folks who need to run chores at 12C/24T (or higher) complexities yet who still benefit from the speed. Some people get multi-processor (Dual-Xeon or Quad-Xeon) platforms instead. Other people (including gamers with 4C/8T at 5GHz!) have simpler computational needs which include maximum possible speed.

  4. #14
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array davemon50 PC Specs
    davemon50 PC Specs
    Laptop (Model)Asus G752VY-DH72 (17") and Asus G752VT-DH74 (17")
    MotherboardAsus ROG LGA2011-v3 Rampage V Edition 10, x99 EATX
    ProcessorIntel Core i7-6950X Extreme 10-core 25MB Cache 3.0 GHz
    Memory (part number)Corsair Vengeance LPX Red DDR4 DRAM 64GB-4x16 3333 (CMK64GX4M4B3333C16R)
    Graphics Card #1Sapphire Nitro Radeon R9 Fury 4GB HBM Backplate
    Graphics Card #2Sapphire Nitro Radeon R9 Fury 4GB HBM Backplate
    Sound CardAsus SupremeFX Hi-Fi Audio DAC
    Monitor(2) Dell UltraSharp U2515H 25-inch monitors
    Storage #1(3) SSD's - Samsung 960 1TB M.2, Intel 535 480G, Intel 510 250G
    Storage #2(3) HDD's - Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5-in SATA III 64MB Cache
    CPU CoolerCorsair Hydro Series H80
    CaseCorsair Obsidian Series 650D Black, ATX, Mid Tower
    Power SupplyCorsair Digital AXi-Series AX1200i (1200W) 80+ Platinum Rating
    Keyboard Logitech Wireless K360
    Mouse Logitech Wireless MX Anywhere 2
    Headset HyperX Cloud II
    OS Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    @davemon50
    ...
    Even then it's a balancing act. More cores always means slower clocks (and slower overclocks).
    ...
    Haha, I might have to wait then until I can get a non-clock-driven scalable event driven solution, LIKE THIS. Unfortunately there's only 4096 cores in that one, TrueNorth. Oh, and I might need a new computer case too and ditch the AIO, lol.
    Davemon50

  5. #15
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
    Accessory #1 TP-Link AC1900 Archer T9E, 1xPCIe
    Accessory #2 ASUS/Infineon SLB9635 TPM (TT1.2/FW3.19)
    Accessory #3 ASUS OC Panel I (FW0501)
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    lol I'd love to have a supercomputer or mainframe at home - think of all the exciting human-vs-computer Chess games I could play - but:

    1) an HEDT platform packing a few bits of workstation/enterprise hardware is already stupidly expensive, a megacomputer which costs more than a couple houses is definite insanity for anyone with less money than Gates, Jobs, or Trump
    2) I don't have enough CompSci degrees in my home to keep such a beast maintained, let alone properly operate and program it
    3) I need to run a lot of x86/x64 software (as "fast" as possible) and it turns out that the easiest, best, and fastest way to do this is on an actual (non-emulated) PC platform

    And a good Z270/i7-7700K system would still kick my system's butt for gaming.

  6. #16
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
    Accessory #1 TP-Link AC1900 Archer T9E, 1xPCIe
    Accessory #2 ASUS/Infineon SLB9635 TPM (TT1.2/FW3.19)
    Accessory #3 ASUS OC Panel I (FW0501)
    Korth's Avatar
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    Gamers always want the very fastest (overclocked) computer available for gaming. The logic being that players with faster machines have an edge over players with slower machines. Maybe they can see one more frame of detail, squeeze in one more shot, dodge one more bullet, respond to (or create) a challenge one instant faster, etc, while their opponents are still rendering detail or catching up on physics/collision calculations or loading terrain/texture details or waiting through some other microsecond of lag.

    System performance is all that matters when carried to the logical extreme. Player performance is irrelevant. "My machine got 61.1fps and yours got 60.8fps, haha, I win!"

    A player's skill (or luck, reflexes, intelligence, creative strategy, devious treachery, stubborn tenaciousness, boring consistency, quirky "moves" or style, or whatever) is all that matters when carried to the opposite extreme. System performance isn't relevant, so long as the system can meet minimum requirements and run the game. "I'm am uber leet pwnage and you suck, haha, I win!"

    It's far more complicated than that, of course. System performance is actually a collection of system performances - it's not all lumped together into a single all-encompassing score, it's the interaction of a whole bundle of subsystem parameters which measure different things and are scored different ways. Player performance is based on too many variables to calculate, given that most players are (at least nominally) human.

    A friend of a friend (acquaintance) is actually a retired League of Legends Champion. Once ranked in the top few dozen worldwide. He made a (not too shabby) living winning prizes first as a professional player, later as a hired tournament trainer. He basically burned out, loved LoL but hated how it became "work" instead of "play", he retired from competitive play and got himself a real job. Cool guy, but he plays hard and plays to win, a bit too serious and focussed and intense to just enjoy PC games for what they are.
    I've seen his gaming rig - an old lightly-overclocked Dell Z87 machine with a (non-K) i7-4790, 16GB DDR3-1866, x8/x8 pair of HD7870XT GPUs, a couple of unexciting SSD drives. Two mismatched monitors, the bigger and better one being a generic LG23" 1920x1080. Well-worn Logitech G15 gaming keyboard and G402 gaming mouse.
    He could easily afford newer and better toys. He could easily upgrade parts of this system or get a whole new one. He could easily push higher overclocks.
    But he views this system as his "tool" and he's honed it to his exacting needs. A minimal WinOS stripped bare of bloat, no software beyond Windows and game and necessary drivers and some benchmarking apps (and sometimes a capture/streaming system). He plays at a shockingly low resolution, he's organized his two-monitor GUI to present only the "right amount of information, right where it can be seen" onscreen, he's mapped his macros and buttons to only provide "the most important functions". He's extremely reluctant to muck around with it, he's even rejected sponsored gaming hardware which "was better in every way except not as good for winning".

    I understand that one gamer cannot truly be representative of all gamers. But he's an example of a world-class legend who deliberately chooses to ignore new tech and new toys. He uses an old and somewhat unspectacular system, and he keeps winning at basically every game he plays.
    But he clearly demonstrates that you don't need the latest-and-greatest, fastest-and-mightiest hardware to win. And having such hardware is still not going to make you a winner if you aren't a good player.

  7. #17
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Vlada011 PC Specs
    Vlada011 PC Specs
    MotherboardRampage V E10 (BIOS 1903)
    ProcessorIntel®i7-5820K (4.5GHz 1.325V)
    Memory (part number)CMD16GX4M4A2666C15
    Graphics Card #1ASUS GTX1080Ti Poseidon
    Sound CardSound Blaster ZxR
    MonitorSamsung P2450H
    Storage #1Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 1TB
    Storage #2Samsung 850 EVO 1TB/WD Black 2TB
    CPU CoolerEK RGB Monoblock RVE10
    CaseLian Li PC-O11 WXC
    Power SupplyEVGA 1200 P2
    Keyboard Deck 87 Francium PRO - MX Brown DS PBT
    Mouse Logitech G900
    Mouse Pad Steeseries QCK
    Headset/Speakers CREATIVE T5900 5.1
    OS Windows 10 Pro x64 v1903
    Accessory #1 iPhone SE Space Grey
    Accessory #2 EK XRES D5 Revo 100 Glass PWM + CoolstreamPE 360
    Accessory #3 Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM x3 (radiator)
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    Definitely best hardware is not most important for best gaming.
    Sometimes is more important mouse and gamepad and little less keyboard...
    But most of gamers are enthusiasts in same time and love to have last technology.
    Some of them love to be early adopters some of them like to hardware show negative and positive sides and than to decide.


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