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  1. #21
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array R5Eandme PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    Well, on the plus side, a surface-mounted SOIC isn't going to have thru-hole leads which can connect to anything in other/hidden layers, lol. So soldering a socket or breakout in place is no big deal. (Btw, you can get SOIC8 carriers with black PCBs which would look much better on black gaming mobos, lol.)

    I prefer (re)programming chips out of circuit whenever possible. And I prefer swappable socketed packages for these whenever possible. But, to be honest, I tend to swap BIOS very infrequently unless the project is all about tinkering with the board itself - and I haven't seen any of these BIOS chips fail (yet) in "normal" use, so I expect needing to replace "non-replaceable" parts isn't a real issue.
    I haven't thought about the SOIC chip connecting only to surface PCB traces but you must be right about that. A surface trace pattern from chip to header (1 2 across, then down, then 3 4 across, then down, etc) would be possible with that chip oriented the way it is. I never understood how multi-layered PCB traces can work reliably but I guess they do most of the time, lol.

    I am glad that BIOS chip failure is rare. But I did destroy the backup chip on the R5E simply by using the ASUS BIOS Copy utility! The fact that several vendors supply pre-programmed replacement BIOS chips tells you that it happens to the unlucky more often than getting hit with lightning.

  2. #22
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
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    Bad flashes can and do happen from time to time, even under ideal conditions without any apparent causes.
    It's a rare occurrence, but I suppose it will always manifest when multiplied by enough users doing enough flashes (often under less-than-ideal conditions), lol, look at how many smartphones and laptops get bricked this way every year.

    Redundant dual-BIOS substantially offsets the risk of total failure. But it's still nice to have access to this embedded factory header for BIOS part programming, if it should ever be needed.
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams

    [/Korth]

  3. #23
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array R5Eandme PC Specs
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    MotherboardRampage V Extreme/U3.1
    Processori7-5930K
    Memory (part number)Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK64GX4M8A2400C14
    Graphics Card #1MSI Geforce GTX 980Ti
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    CPU CoolerNoctua NH-D15S
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    Power SupplyThermaltake TPG-1200M-F 1200W
    Keyboard Corsair K70 Cherry MX Brown
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    Bad flashes can and do happen from time to time, even under ideal conditions without any apparent causes.
    It's a rare occurrence, but I suppose it will always manifest when multiplied by enough users doing enough flashes (often under less-than-ideal conditions), lol, look at how many smartphones and laptops get bricked this way every year.

    Redundant dual-BIOS substantially offsets the risk of total failure. But it's still nice to have access to this embedded factory header for BIOS part programming, if it should ever be needed.
    Absolutely. That flashing header compensates a lot for the inconvenience of having a surface mounted chip go bad. I plan to assemble this flashing cable and use it just to read a copy of the BIOS chip into a bin file using my SPI EEPROM programmer. That way I can write it back to a replacement chip should it become necessary. In addition to the BIOS program, the read bin file should contain the motherboard serial number, primary card mac address and motherboard UUID, not that I am convinced that extra info is really needed. I read that some motherboards won't post without it, but I am guessing that is the exception.

  4. #24
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array R5Eandme PC Specs
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    MotherboardRampage V Extreme/U3.1
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    Quote Originally Posted by R5Eandme View Post
    My Crosshair VI Extreme has arrived and I noticed that instead of the Winbond W25Q128FVIG SPI BIOS chip, it uses a 25LB128CSIG (SOIC8 package). I cannot find the datasheet for this part, but a couple of 3rd party vendors of pre-programmed BIOS chips (eBay) say that multiple suppliers are sourced for BIOS chips by ASUS, and that the 25LB128CSIG is compatible with 25Q128 series such as W25Q128FVSG which they provide to owners of Crosshair VI Extreme, and I assume Hero as well.
    I found out that the GigaDevice 25LB128 BIOS chip found on my Crosshair VI Extreme, and the similar 25LQ128 are NOT equivalent to the Windbond W25Q128 BIOS chips. The W25Q128 uses a VCC range from 2.7V to 3.6V. The 25LQ128 data sheet designates VCC=1.8V. Elmor did state that the AM4 boards use VCC=1.8V for the BIOS chips. So if you program the BIOS chip 25LB128 on an AMD board such as the C6E, you must use VCC=1.8V to avoid damaging the chip. Also program it with the board powered down.

    Here is a chart from the GigaDevice product selection guide that shows the VCC input voltages for SPI chips. Note that "Q" denotes 3V while "LB" and "LQ" denote 1.8V

    Click image for larger version. 

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    My GQ4x4 SPI programmer supplies 5V, but they provide an adapter for reducing that VCC down to your choice of 1.8V or 2.4V.

    http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/stor...idProduct=4630
    Last edited by R5Eandme; 04-06-2018 at 03:06 AM.

  5. #25
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array R5Eandme PC Specs
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    MotherboardRampage V Extreme/U3.1
    Processori7-5930K
    Memory (part number)Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK64GX4M8A2400C14
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    Sound CardAsus Essence STX II
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    Power SupplyThermaltake TPG-1200M-F 1200W
    Keyboard Corsair K70 Cherry MX Brown
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    OS Win 10 x64 Pro
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    Quote Originally Posted by R5Eandme View Post
    I found out that the GigaDevice 25LB128 BIOS chip found on my Crosshair VI Extreme, and the similar 25LQ128 are NOT equivalent to the Windbond W25Q128 BIOS chips. The W25Q128 uses a VCC range from 2.7V to 3.6V. The 25LQ128 data sheet designates VCC=1.8V. Elmor did state that the AM4 boards use VCC=1.8V for the BIOS chips. So if you program the BIOS chip 25LB128 on an AMD board such as the C6E, you must use VCC=1.8V to avoid damaging the chip. Also program it with the board powered down.

    Here is a chart from the GigaDevice product selection guide that shows the VCC input voltages for SPI chips. Note that "Q" denotes 3V while "LB" and "LQ" denote 1.8V

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BIOS number chart.PNG 
Views:	1 
Size:	147.7 KB 
ID:	72796


    My GQ4x4 SPI programmer supplies 5V, but they provide an adapter for reducing that VCC down to your choice of 1.8V or 2.4V.

    http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/stor...idProduct=4630
    As of June 2018, the GQ4x4 SPI programmer can now program the GD25LQ128 chips, and I assume GD25LB128 found on ASUS Crosshair VI. Previously you needed to provide custom code.

  6. #26
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
    Korth PC Specs
    MotherboardASUS X99 R5E (BIOS2101/1902)
    ProcessorHaswell-EP E5-1680-3 SR20H/R2 (4.4GHz)
    Memory (part number)Vengeance LPX 4x8GB SS DDR4-3000 (CMK32GX4M4C3000C15)
    Graphics Card #1NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Graphics Card #2NVIDIA Quadro GP100GL/16GB, 16xPCIe3, NVLink1 (SLI-HB)
    Sound CardJDS Labs O2+ODAC (RevB), USB2 UAC1
    MonitorASUS PG278Q
    Storage #1Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSDs, 4xSATA3 RAID0
    Storage #2Comay BladeDrive E28 3200GB SSD, 8xPCIe2
    CPU CoolerRaijintek NEMESIS/TISIS, AS5, 2xNH-A14
    CaseObsidian 750D (original), 6xNH-A14
    Power SupplyZalman/FSP ZM1250 Platinum
    Headset Pilot P51 PTT *modded*
    OS Arch, Gentoo, Win7x64, Win10x64
    Network RouterActiontec T3200M VDSL2 Gateway
    Accessory #1 TP-Link AC1900 Archer T9E, 1xPCIe
    Accessory #2 ASUS/Infineon SLB9635 TPM (TT1.2/FW3.19)
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    Quote Originally Posted by R5Eandme View Post
    I found out that the GigaDevice 25LB128 BIOS chip found on my Crosshair VI Extreme, and the similar 25LQ128 are NOT equivalent to the Windbond W25Q128 BIOS chips. The W25Q128 uses a VCC range from 2.7V to 3.6V. The 25LQ128 data sheet designates VCC=1.8V. Elmor did state that the AM4 boards use VCC=1.8V for the BIOS chips. So if you program the BIOS chip 25LB128 on an AMD board such as the C6E, you must use VCC=1.8V to avoid damaging the chip. Also program it with the board powered down.
    Good to know.

    I'd always physically inspect the part markings, of course, that extra minute might be a waste but it can sometimes save you the hassle of bricking a whole ($500+) mainboard, haha.

    The SPIFlash chips I work with usually report part IDs to the programmer/software, which then configures voltages/etc (for compatible and listed parts, anyhow) as needed. These parts don't do this?
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams

    [/Korth]

  7. #27
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array R5Eandme PC Specs
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    MotherboardRampage V Extreme/U3.1
    Processori7-5930K
    Memory (part number)Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK64GX4M8A2400C14
    Graphics Card #1MSI Geforce GTX 980Ti
    Sound CardAsus Essence STX II
    MonitorAcer B286HK 4K UHD
    Storage #1Samsung 960 Pro 1TB NVMe
    Storage #2Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD
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    Power SupplyThermaltake TPG-1200M-F 1200W
    Keyboard Corsair K70 Cherry MX Brown
    Mouse Asus Sica
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    OS Win 10 x64 Pro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    Good to know.

    I'd always physically inspect the part markings, of course, that extra minute might be a waste but it can sometimes save you the hassle of bricking a whole ($500+) mainboard, haha.

    The SPIFlash chips I work with usually report part IDs to the programmer/software, which then configures voltages/etc (for compatible and listed parts, anyhow) as needed. These parts don't do this?
    Hi Korth,

    Yes the GQ4x4 reports the chip ID (see image), but there is a "DEVICES.TXT" file that gives the programmer instructions for each chip type/ID. You can add your own custom code as well. If the chip you have in the ZIF socket differs from the DEVICES.TXT entry that you have chosen you will get an error message and you decide to abort or proceed. You can safely proceed if the VCC and other parameters are the same as the chip you are programming as there are almost identical chips with different IDs. GQ4x4 also includes an adapter for lowering VCC to 1.8v or 2.4v for the AMD4 socket boards.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by R5Eandme; 06-23-2018 at 06:27 PM.

  8. #28
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    Hi,

    Was able to use the SPI header on an Asus Z270-WS no problem but on my APEX IX board my usb programmer device just can't get a read on the device. Is this because that is dual bios?

    Thanks.

  9. #29
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array R5Eandme PC Specs
    R5Eandme PC Specs
    MotherboardRampage V Extreme/U3.1
    Processori7-5930K
    Memory (part number)Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK64GX4M8A2400C14
    Graphics Card #1MSI Geforce GTX 980Ti
    Sound CardAsus Essence STX II
    MonitorAcer B286HK 4K UHD
    Storage #1Samsung 960 Pro 1TB NVMe
    Storage #2Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD
    CPU CoolerNoctua NH-D15S
    CaseCooler Master HAF 932
    Power SupplyThermaltake TPG-1200M-F 1200W
    Keyboard Corsair K70 Cherry MX Brown
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    Mouse Pad "And God said ... <Maxwell's equations> ... and there was light."
    OS Win 10 x64 Pro
    Accessory #1 Asus USB 3.1 A, StarTech USB 3.1 C PCIe adapters
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    Quote Originally Posted by moheban79 View Post
    Hi,

    Was able to use the SPI header on an Asus Z270-WS no problem but on my APEX IX board my usb programmer device just can't get a read on the device. Is this because that is dual bios?

    Thanks.
    Hi moheban,

    I have only read and programmed BIOS chips out of circuit. I don't know why there was a problem with the dual-BIOS board. Does your SPI EEPROM flash device have the spec data needed to read the chips on your dual BIOS board? On my SPI reader the data set has to contain a spec record for the chip being read. Otherwise it cannot know what voltage to supply, for example. Maybe the voltage supplied by your SPI flash device is not correct for the chip specs? You can get the VCC from an online data sheet. Just some ideas I am curious what is the chip designation on those boards?

    Congratulations of being able to use a cable to header connection on that Z270-WS board. Did you read, write or both?

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