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  1. #11
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array SlackROG PC Specs
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    I have a clonezilla backup so I have nothing to loose by trying this that I read online;

    If your MB supports CSM, install Windows 7 with CSM enabled but select "UEFI" as boot device and install Windows 7 normally. After all the updates and drivers are installed. you can remove the standard VGA drivers and boot without CSM. That's the script i used to remove it automatically:

    You have to run these cmds one at a time;

    rem disable vga.sys 640x480 16 colors
    rem ren %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\vga.sys *.off
    set Services=HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services
    reg.exe add "%Services%\Vga" /f /t REG_DWORD /v "Start" /d 4
    reg.exe add "%Services%\VgaSave" /f /t REG_DWORD /v "Start" /d 4

    rem disable VGA at bootmgr
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} bootlog yes
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} bootstatuspolicy IgnoreAllFailures
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} novesa on
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} quietboot on


    Someone claims, after this, CSM can be disabled...

    I'll report back if this is true...

  2. #12
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
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    Hmm, I never had to muck around with any CSM stuff, I use a LILO on X99/Z270, I have no problems multibooting Arch/Gentoo/Win7/Win10 off a SATA RAID.

    Maybe your bootloader is imposing this CSM restriction. What are you using and have you tried any others?
    Last edited by Korth; 11-08-2017 at 12:59 AM.
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams

    [/Korth]

  3. #13
    ROG Guru: Green Belt Array haihane PC Specs
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    @haihane, I didn't just read that you tried to defrag an SSD did I? LOL Cause if I did, you don't defrag an SSD.
    yep. one does not defrag an SSD.
    i blame samsung data migration. that thing rickrolled me. i do hope they fix it on later iterations though. it was a nice and convenient tool, (just don't use it to clone your HDD to their own SSDs).


    sidenote: i heard great things about macrium on this forum. i should try this on my next repair attempt.



    Quote Originally Posted by Chino View Post
    Windows 7 requires CSM.
    what? really?
    found it -> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...48bb0a3?auth=1

    TIL.
    Last edited by haihane; 11-08-2017 at 01:37 AM. Reason: apologies, remembered the software name wrongly. fixed.
    no siggy, saw stuff that made me sad.

  4. #14
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array R5Eandme PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlackROG View Post
    @haihane, I didn't just read that you tried to defrag an SSD did I? LOL Cause if I did, you don't defrag an SSD.

    From what I read Windows 7 only supports UEFI 2, which is why supposedly I can't get it installed, and need CSM enabled.

    @ThrashZone, Secure Boot from my understanding has nothing to do with getting Win7 installed, or working with EFI.

    The disk is GPT partition... So not sure why I need to disable Secure Boot since the BIOS is set as Other OS and everything boots up fine, I don't see that Secure Boot is getting in the way of anything.

    Yes Linux is on the same drive, different partition of course...

    GRUB works just fine dual booting and Linux works easy/great with EFI.
    Hi SlackROG, I think you are correct, Win7 can only be booted using legacy BIOS with MBR partitioning, or with Class 1 or Class 2 UEFI (and GPT partition), which emulates legacy BIOS so it can boot Win7. I am thinking your "UEFI 2" probably refers to class 2 UEFI bios mode. See the following from "UEFI Secure Boot in Widows 8.1" by Sushovan Sinha:

    The Evolution of Platform Firmware are classified as:
    Class 0: Pure BIOS Firmware.
    Class 1: UEFI Firmware which emulates as BIOS only. No UEFI support is provided. This was used by Platform Manufacturers to transition to UEFI standard while essentially maintain a BIOS platform, as most OS of that time were not UEFI aware.
    Class 2: These Platforms support both UEFI and Legacy BIOS via CSM. Majority of platforms shipping today are Class 2 platforms. Class 2 platform with CSM enabled functions like a Class 1 platform. Here the UEFI BIOS firmware though inherently UEFI, provides no UEFI support and this is where the use of the term UEFI gets misleading sometime.
    Class 3: These platforms boot purely through UEFI firmware without any Legacy BIOS support. Class 3 platforms do not have a Compatibility Support Module. Class 2 platform with CSM disabled functions like a Class 3 platform.

    If your Win7 boot drive is partitioned as GPT and not MBR, it is called "Hybrid MBR" and still boots using a Legacy BIOS as required by Win7 as far as I know. You should need to have CSM enabled for this system to boot. Because CSM allows for older OS bootloaders and Option ROMs whose signatures are not in the Secure Boot database, you can't have CSM and Secure Boot enabled at the same time. With CSM disabled, you can have Secure Boot enabled or disabled. You can check your partition layout. With MBR for Win7 it should have a System and a Boot partition:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Win7_disk_mgr.JPG 
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ID:	68757
    while with the GPT partition for UEFI (or class 2 UEFI for emulating legacy boot) you will have an EFI partition (Extensible Firmware Interface), system and recovery partitions:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Win10_disk_mgr.JPG 
Views:	2 
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ID:	68758

    I don't know why your Win7 system keeps rebooting, but maybe this info will help you troubleshoot.

    CSM IS ENABLED BY DEFAULT, so people who want a pure UEFI boot system will want to disable CSM before installing the OS.

    Here is the link to the discussion by Sushovon Sinha “UEFI Secure Boot in Windows 8.1” https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...a-57fa783f0759
    Last edited by R5Eandme; 11-08-2017 at 02:57 AM.

  5. #15
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array SlackROG PC Specs
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    @Korth, Linux boots with CSM disabled, so not sure it's a Grub issue, because I disabled CSM and Win10 boots fine without.

    This just seems Win7 issue...

    @Haihane ok...

    @R5Eandme Win7 boots just fine if I enable CSM, but I'm going to try those options and see if this works and report back...

  6. #16
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array SlackROG PC Specs
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    AHHHHH THESE CMDS WORK! WoOT

    I started Win7 as normal with CSM enabled, then I ran each command one at a time, then rebooted, went into the BIOS and disabled CSM and it works!

    Be sure to run the cmd prompt as Admin to do this!

    The only thing, I no longer see the Windows 7 startup screen, so I rebooted and unchecked the "No GUI boot" option and it works, not sure why someone removed this with these cmds I found online... Hmm

    Click the Start button and in the Run or Search for programs and files text box, type msconfig and press Enter. ...
    Click on the Boot tab. ...
    On the Boot tab, uncheck the "No GUI boot" option.
    Click OK.


    It does boot a little faster with it disabled.

    Now to be honest this is a bit confusing, because the point of what I read online is that what is causing the issue is a lack of support for the VGA, so it's all be disabled. Now if that was 100% true, I personally don't get how I'm able to have the GUI boot enabled? Maybe someone can shed some light on this?

    So bcdedit /set quietboot on doesn't have to be used if you still want the Boot Windows 7 Start Screen...

    So try it and profit, just be sure to make a backup first!

    rem disable vga.sys 640x480 16 colors
    rem ren %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\vga.sys *.off
    set Services=HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services
    reg.exe add "%Services%\Vga" /f /t REG_DWORD /v "Start" /d 4
    reg.exe add "%Services%\VgaSave" /f /t REG_DWORD /v "Start" /d 4

    rem disable VGA at bootmgr
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} bootlog yes
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} bootstatuspolicy IgnoreAllFailures
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} novesa on
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} quietboot on
    Last edited by SlackROG; 11-08-2017 at 03:38 AM.

  7. #17
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array R5Eandme PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlackROG View Post
    AHHHHH THESE CMDS WORK! WoOT

    I started Win7 as normal with CSM enabled, then I ran each command one at a time, then rebooted, went into the BIOS and disabled CSM and it works!

    Be sure to run the cmd prompt as Admin to do this!

    The only thing, I no longer see the Windows 7 startup screen, so I rebooted and unchecked the "No GUI boot" option and it works, not sure why someone removed this with these cmds I found online... Hmm

    Click the Start button and in the Run or Search for programs and files text box, type msconfig and press Enter. ...
    Click on the Boot tab. ...
    On the Boot tab, uncheck the "No GUI boot" option.
    Click OK.


    It does boot a little faster with it disabled.

    Now to be honest this is a bit confusing, because the point of what I read online is that what is causing the issue is a lack of support for the VGA, so it's all be disabled. Now if that was 100% true, I personally don't get how I'm able to have the GUI boot enabled? Maybe someone can shed some light on this?

    So bcdedit /set quietboot on doesn't have to be used if you still want the Boot Windows 7 Start Screen...

    So try it and profit, just be sure to make a backup first!

    rem disable vga.sys 640x480 16 colors
    rem ren %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\vga.sys *.off
    set Services=HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services
    reg.exe add "%Services%\Vga" /f /t REG_DWORD /v "Start" /d 4
    reg.exe add "%Services%\VgaSave" /f /t REG_DWORD /v "Start" /d 4

    rem disable VGA at bootmgr
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} bootlog yes
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} bootstatuspolicy IgnoreAllFailures
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} novesa on
    bcdedit.exe /set {current} quietboot on
    Congratulations! I am glad smart people are out there tinkering with these cmds before you get to try them on your own computer
    The legacy boot is still working because it boots up Win7, but with CSM disabled! There's an educational opportunity in there somewhere.

  8. #18
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array SlackROG PC Specs
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    @R5Eandme, how is legacy still working when CSM is disabled?

    My understadning of CSM (Compatibility Support Module), is that when it's enabled it allows for Legacy Mode, but when it's disabled it only allows for UEFI, and there is no more Legacy happening...

    Looking at the commands the only thing I'm seeing that is being dealt with is VGA.

    So I'm not getting what you are saying, when you mentioned the legacy boot is still working?
    Last edited by SlackROG; 11-08-2017 at 04:16 AM.

  9. #19
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array R5Eandme PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlackROG View Post
    @R5Eandme, how is legacy still working when CSM is disabled?

    My understadning of CSM (Compatibility Support Module), is that when it's enabled it allows for Legacy Mode, but when it's disabled it only allows for UEFI, and there is no more Legacy happening...

    Looking at the commands the only thing I'm seeing that is being dealt with is VGA.

    So I'm not getting what you are saying, when you mentioned the legacy boot is still working?
    Hi SlackROG,

    "My understadning of CSM (Compatibility Support Module), is that when it's enabled it allows for Legacy Mode, but when it's disabled it only allows for UEFI, and there is no more Legacy happening..." The legacy vs UEFI is how the disk is partitioned and what boot paths are set by Windows when Windows is installed. Once those are set, they won't change or "un-partition" simply by disabling CSM. That is why, if you wanted a pure UEFI-GPT boot to Windows, but ended up with a legacy-MBR boot instead (because CSM was enabled during Windows installation) you have to install Windows all over again. Simply disabling CSM won't do it. So now with CSM disabled, you still have a legacy boot to Win7.

    To be honest, I am confused why your problem with rebooting Win7 with CSM disabled is now fixed due somehow to your cmds that disabled a VGA driver. Maybe the VGA driver does not have a digital signature, so CSM is needed to load it. When you disabled the VGA driver, maybe CSM is no longer needed and you can boot without it?

    I am not an real expert but here is my understanding of what happens when you install Win7 on a GPT-partitioned disk.
    Because you installed Win7 on a GPT-partitioned disk, I believe it is still a "legacy boot" which is the way Win7 needs to boot. With traditional legacy BIOS boot with MBR partitioning, the Windows OS loader (C:\Windows\System32\winload.exe) in the Windows partition has to be called from the boot manager (bootmgr.exe) in the system partition's Master Boot Record or MBR. This is what I mean by "legacy boot".

    With UEFI it is different as you know. The boot manager in the EFI partition is something like \EFI\BOOT\bootx64.efi for removable devices like a USB drive or DVD, and for the Windows SSD it would be \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\Bootmgfw.efi. These will call C:\Windows\System32\Winload.efi to load Windows.

    If you install Win7 on a GPT disk, the boot method is called "Hybrid MBR" and it is still s "Legacy BIOS" installation. In that Sinha paper: "Finally the Hard Drive must have GPT partition, which is actually a standard developed for UEFI of being 64-bit. Since BIOS boot is possible only with 32-bit MBR partition table, GPT partition allows BIOS boot by reserving its first sector with MBR type data called Hybrid MBR. Hybrid MBR allows you to address 2TB Hard Disk space and additional space beyond 2TB will be in GPT partitions which cannot be used by a BIOS based system. The only situation that demands Hybrid MBR partition scheme, is when a machine must support dual boot for a UEFI system alongwith a legacy BIOS system."

    So that is why I called it a Legacy Boot, even though somehow it no longer needs CSM enabled. Maybe once you installed Win7 with CSM enabled, the Legacy boot path became fixed, and all that turning off CSM does is prevent the BIOS from checking all devices for boot-related firmware, and with that VGA driver disabled, the system is allowed to boot without CSM. Just my hunch. That is maybe why it starts faster as well with CSM disabled.

    Here is a table from the Sinha paper showing the boot-firmware possibilities, and I am guessing you have the Hybrid MBR type in row 1 of the table. what do you think?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	boot_types.JPG 
Views:	2 
Size:	72.6 KB 
ID:	68759
    Last edited by R5Eandme; 11-09-2017 at 03:54 PM.

  10. #20
    ROG Guru: Orange Belt Array SlackROG PC Specs
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    Hi R5Eandme,

    Ok I see what you mean, of course I get that Win7 does need Legacy, I just assumed by disabling CSM, that it no longer had access to it, and whatever was going on with Legacy is now gone that Win7 needed before.

    NOW I guess I need to figure how I'd hack the Win7 iso so that I can boot my Win7 USB stick with CSM disabled? You wouldn't have any ideas on how to go about this?

    Here's the thing that still has me guessing, if I just installed Win7, then tried to disable CSM , WIn7 doesn't start, I had to use the cmds in order to make it run with CSM disabled, which made me think it is now Full UEFI...

    Thanks
    Last edited by SlackROG; 11-08-2017 at 06:53 AM.

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