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  1. #21
    ROG Enthusiast Array Smokin_Joe's Avatar
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    Smile Hi xeromist

    Quote Originally Posted by xeromist View Post
    As far as I know *Bitcoin* isn't really profitable for an average miner with a PC anymore. You have to have a special ASIC these days. Most of the current craze surrounds various new coins that are less difficult because they are new, thus having less competition, and/or they are specifically engineered to be easier. So if you already have good hardware and you get in on the ground floor of a new coin it's just a matter of the cost of electricity.

    So, for example mining is very profitable in Venezuela. Maduro has run that country into the ground so crypto coins are actually more stable than the bolivar and electricity is free. Of course it doesn't meet the requirement of "safe" because it's illegal and corrupt cops will throw you in jail after stealing your mining equipment. So there's that.
    I was just googlin...oops...DuckDuckGoin...lol and put in Aliexpress..
    Mining motherboards
    Mining rigs.
    6 Lots of video cards..
    1700 watt power supplies
    Oh boy mind races
    I have seen so many scams on You Tube it would scare you.
    Entertaining though..

    I like the DuckDuckGo..it was even one of the search engines on Firefox...

    If nothing else I learned about a new search engine.
    I also watched all the videos and stories that haihane had posted.
    Good Stuff
    Last edited by Smokin_Joe; 11-09-2017 at 08:48 AM.

  2. #22
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
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    "Safe"?

    No. I wouldn't consider cryptocoin a "safe" investment. The payoff value of new (and existing) bitcoins is deliberately designed to diminish as more coins and more miners come online. What's supposed increase value is increased demand; people buying bitcoins (to use for buying other things). So they lose value the moment you buy them and gain value only when you can use them to pay for things (like a lump of cash) you can't otherwise purchase.

    So of course anybody who's involved in mining is automatically going to say "yes, buy bitcoins!" and of course anybody who has bitcoins to sell wants more vendors to accept bitcoins as payment in exchange for goods or services (or other currencies).

    They aren't any sort of hard "M0" currency, they have no intrinsic commodity value, no reserve, no insurance, no protection, only rudimentary (and very ad-hoc) regulation. The only great appeal to cryptocurrency that I can see from a consumer point of view is the ability to circumvent taxation and the ability to "mint" your own money with mining rigs.

    Cryptocurrency tokens are each uniquely identifiable, and I suspect that enough governmental/legal pressure can "trace" the ownership trail of any given token (no matter how jumbled and scrambled and tangled and mixed up it might be) if the Powers That Be ever deem the rewards worth the effort.
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams

    [/Korth]

  3. #23
    ROG Enthusiast Array Smokin_Joe's Avatar
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    Question Is it Safe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    "Safe"?

    No. I wouldn't consider cryptocoin a "safe" investment. The payoff value of new (and existing) bitcoins is deliberately designed to diminish as more coins and more miners come online. What's supposed increase value is increased demand; people buying bitcoins (to use for buying other things). So they lose value the moment you buy them and gain value only when you can use them to pay for things (like a lump of cash) you can't otherwise purchase.

    So of course anybody who's involved in mining is automatically going to say "yes, buy bitcoins!" and of course anybody who has bitcoins to sell wants more vendors to accept bitcoins as payment in exchange for goods or services (or other currencies).

    They aren't any sort of hard "M0" currency, they have no intrinsic commodity value, no reserve, no insurance, no protection, only rudimentary (and very ad-hoc) regulation. The only great appeal to cryptocurrency that I can see from a consumer point of view is the ability to circumvent taxation and the ability to "mint" your own money with mining rigs.

    Cryptocurrency tokens are each uniquely identifiable, and I suspect that enough governmental/legal pressure can "trace" the ownership trail of any given token (no matter how jumbled and scrambled and tangled and mixed up it might be) if the Powers That Be ever deem the rewards worth the effort.
    No Argument here.
    I tried out the search engine DuckDuckGo. Worked pretty good.
    I was looking on Aliexpress and I could not believe the price of some of those video cards.
    It is unbelievable all that they have to sell.
    "Mining" brought up everything.
    I have bought used and new equipment from them and, aside from the fact it can take a few months to arrive, they stand behind the sale.
    Once when a product failed to arrive, I was refunded my money and they air shipped the replacement...never asking for me to pay again.
    They are bigger than Amazon.
    It is too bad that this demand has driven up the price on video cards.
    If crypto currency's drop and people dump the used cards it could be pretty hard on the manufacturers...but what do I know

  4. #24
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
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    Used GPU cards are always a gamble, lol, I'd never buy one "cheap" from eBay or Alibaba or craigslist - unless maybe it was *really* cheap (like 20 bucks) and a perfect match for some other card(s) for SLI/CF or for spare parts.

    This is a perfect time for a new player to muscle into the GPU market. I remember the days of NVIDIA vs ATI vs Matrox vs 3dfx vs VIA/S3 etc ... to be sure only one or two companies offered a "killer" GPU card at any given time (and compatibility with drivers/games of the era was very hit-or-miss), but leap-frogging competition was fierce and prices were held "low", lol. I'd love to see new discrete GPU families made by Intel, Samsung, ARM, etc, even if they were crap compared vs NVIDIA/AMD they're options and their mere presence forces GPU makers to deliver competitive value to the end user.
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams

    [/Korth]

  5. #25
    ROG Guru: Green Belt Array haihane PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokin_Joe View Post
    lol you lost me at page 1398 or so...
    Heard or read this before.
    (I did finish it and just to be clear...it is a bit off topic old bean)
    ...
    and we might be off topic...sigh
    i was linking this to... brought forth(?) the morality of Good and Evil changes depending on circumstances (mostly shades of Gray), as it heavily challenged my own morality. When i first found out about this Trolley Problem, It was like i struck gold. i printed this and studied it slowly, taking notes in between, referring back to previous pages to see if i got my logic wrong. i hadn't finished analyzing that piece (and it's been days now), and i'm still trying to wrap my head around it. but you finished the whole piece! Wow!

    it's a little off topic (admittedly), sorry. but i thought you and Xeromist might enjoy it as much as i did (i remembered him saying he loved having thought provoking discussions). do you get the feeling that people who have been long dead before you were born, and still schooling you, exciting your brain to new problems and ways to look at things? it's a supremely happy feeling even though one just got schooled by a stack of papers from people long dead. praise their brains!

    please disregard this if the topic is not to your liking.


    No it wasn't based on anything but a hunch.
    i can see where you're coming from. i'm pretty much Intuition (Hunch) oriented, myself.

    If you give me some artistic license the statement I made was based on hearsay taken from places like this
    http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/common-...urrency-scams/
    i've heard about Mt. Gox. this is a sad thing, Bitcoin, etherium, any Cryptocurrency can go up in smoke just like that. here's a downer: Fiat Money too can go up in smoke once people stop trusting it (as it is no longer backed by Gold).

    i had spent time thinking about Bitcoin, that whether Bitcoin had any value in itself without the existence of Fiat money. i came to the conclusion that it wasn't possible for Cryptocurrency to have any value at all without Fiat Money as its foundation. Conversely, Fiat money won't have value if these stacks of paper can't be used to feed oneself, keeping ourselves alive. I then believe the most basic currency is still Goods (Things, Foodstuff, Water, whatever keeps one person alive and prosper).

    Point number 2 in your link : Pyramid and Ponzi Schemes.

    when reading this, my Danger Radar went off like crazy. you could very well be Justified in your opinion, thinking that Cryptocurrency being a scam, Evil. while i may disagree, thinking of it as a potential that i might not (yet) be willing to invest in, but i must acknowledge your points and your skepticism in distrusting Cryptocurrencies.

    haihane...I am not a hater in today's terminology that goes out of his way to find fault and then try to debunk it.
    ok. Fair enough.


    If anyone wants to help me understand how to make Crypto Mining of Crypto Currency something that can be a profitable, reliable and safe investment I would like to hear it. I have no clue what the government thinks of it and whether it is tax deductible. If the government said it was ok then I guess I must be mistaken, after all if you can't trust the government who can you trust.
    It is such a gamble and so risky I can't see it being a good thing.
    I just don't feel it is something I would like to put my trust in.
    To be honest, nobody can convince you to be in favor of or against Cryptocurrencies, nor that anybody should (in my honest opinion, in principle).

    think of Bitcoin mining, Cryptocurrencies as a Business Investment. there's no guarantee anybody (not even the company backing it up) can give that it will net a profit. Business inherently is risky. best one can do is to research and make a(n) educated guess(es), the likelihood of it turning into a profit.

    and pay the consequences of Trusting or Distrusting it by themselves*


    If nothing else I learned about a new search engine.
    I also watched all the videos and stories that haihane had posted.
    Good Stuff
    it makes me happy that you actually watched all of them. the part where how bitcoin works and basing itself on not trusting anybody is especially interesting, right?
    no siggy, saw stuff that made me sad.

  6. #26
    ROG Enthusiast Array Smokin_Joe's Avatar
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    Smile Try em...never know

    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    Used GPU cards are always a gamble, lol, I'd never buy one "cheap" from eBay or Alibaba or craigslist - unless maybe it was *really* cheap (like 20 bucks) and a perfect match for some other card(s) for SLI/CF or for spare parts.

    This is a perfect time for a new player to muscle into the GPU market. I remember the days of NVIDIA vs ATI vs Matrox vs 3dfx vs VIA/S3 etc ... to be sure only one or two companies offered a "killer" GPU card at any given time (and compatibility with drivers/games of the era was very hit-or-miss), but leap-frogging competition was fierce and prices were held "low", lol. I'd love to see new discrete GPU families made by Intel, Samsung, ARM, etc, even if they were crap compared vs NVIDIA/AMD they're options and their mere presence forces GPU makers to deliver competitive value to the end user.
    Just for fun check out Aliexpress and punch in some details on what you are looking for in a video card or anything electronic.
    Might not be a brand name , let me know what you find.
    Joe

  7. #27
    ROG Enthusiast Array Smokin_Joe's Avatar
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    Smile Trust and Consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by haihane View Post
    i was linking this to... brought forth(?) the morality of Good and Evil changes depending on circumstances (mostly shades of Gray), as it heavily challenged my own morality. When i first found out about this Trolley Problem, It was like i struck gold. i printed this and studied it slowly, taking notes in between, referring back to previous pages to see if i got my logic wrong. i hadn't finished analyzing that piece (and it's been days now), and i'm still trying to wrap my head around it. but you finished the whole piece! Wow!

    it's a little off topic (admittedly), sorry. but i thought you and Xeromist might enjoy it as much as i did (i remembered him saying he loved having thought provoking discussions). do you get the feeling that people who have been long dead before you were born, and still schooling you, exciting your brain to new problems and ways to look at things? it's a supremely happy feeling even though one just got schooled by a stack of papers from people long dead. praise their brains!

    please disregard this if the topic is not to your liking.



    i can see where you're coming from. i'm pretty much Intuition (Hunch) oriented, myself.


    i've heard about Mt. Gox. this is a sad thing, Bitcoin, etherium, any Cryptocurrency can go up in smoke just like that. here's a downer: Fiat Money too can go up in smoke once people stop trusting it (as it is no longer backed by Gold).

    i had spent time thinking about Bitcoin, that whether Bitcoin had any value in itself without the existence of Fiat money. i came to the conclusion that it wasn't possible for Cryptocurrency to have any value at all without Fiat Money as its foundation. Conversely, Fiat money won't have value if these stacks of paper can't be used to feed oneself, keeping ourselves alive. I then believe the most basic currency is still Goods (Things, Foodstuff, Water, whatever keeps one person alive and prosper).

    Point number 2 in your link : Pyramid and Ponzi Schemes.

    when reading this, my Danger Radar went off like crazy. you could very well be Justified in your opinion, thinking that Cryptocurrency being a scam, Evil. while i may disagree, thinking of it as a potential that i might not (yet) be willing to invest in, but i must acknowledge your points and your skepticism in distrusting Cryptocurrencies.


    ok. Fair enough.



    To be honest, nobody can convince you to be in favor of or against Cryptocurrencies, nor that anybody should (in my honest opinion, in principle).

    think of Bitcoin mining, Cryptocurrencies as a Business Investment. there's no guarantee anybody (not even the company backing it up) can give that it will net a profit. Business inherently is risky. best one can do is to research and make a(n) educated guess(es), the likelihood of it turning into a profit.

    and pay the consequences of Trusting or Distrusting it by themselves*




    it makes me happy that you actually watched all of them. the part where how bitcoin works and basing itself on not trusting anybody is especially interesting, right?
    haihane
    It was all very good..Thank You
    The trolley problem, the transplant problem...my problem...lol
    I love short stories but I for the life of me can't recall names, authors.. etc without really dragging my processor down so that it appears to stop.
    In the transplant , while I was reading , I had already lessened the number of of people who would die to one...then the story changed and the dilemma was modified...making my first solution still valid..but I never really got the true meaning of the story..
    I will reread the Wiki on the trolley, I just googled....opps..DuckDucked...lol..and get the big picture.
    The trolley was still a puzzle in that one will die...but only one...life can be cruel and you have to default to the one with the best chance for everyone...including the new target....maybe the one will see the trolley and step away...so that no one dies..
    I looked at the stories as puzzles and solving them.
    The transplant could have saved all but one...you would still have had to let one die...each person would have had organs from someone else.
    I read how the plot kept changing and when watching a movie I love to be surprised...good surprises...don't like evil...lol
    That being said I can really get into evil doing good things...I am naive..
    As I read the trolley to the end of what you had presented I let the information flow over me and I am in agreement with it.
    I understand it's meaning.
    I just couldn't get there by myself because I didn't get the purpose of the story..I will read the wiki.
    You said...
    "i had spent time thinking about Bitcoin, that whether Bitcoin had any value in itself without the existence of Fiat money. i came to the conclusion that it wasn't possible for Cryptocurrency to have any value at all without Fiat Money as its foundation. Conversely, Fiat money won't have value if these stacks of paper can't be used to feed oneself, keeping ourselves alive. I then believe the most basic currency is still Goods (Things, Foodstuff, Water, whatever keeps one person alive and prosper)."

    I agree totally...

    "Point number 2 in your link : Pyramid and Ponzi Schemes."

    I don't want to link anything that someone else would find wrong or violates the forum rules.
    DuckDuck..."Kevin Talbot" and one of his You Tube video's "$1000 to $1million in 2 years is it a BITCOIN SCAM?"
    (Please don't read anything into the quality of the host, this was discovered during my research on crypto whatever)
    This is a ponzi/pyramid scheme and hear there are lots of these popping up...I looked at how old this vid was so and didn't bother looking any further)
    ""The following is Off topic""
    Lately I have found enjoyment watching a Kid take on Scammers...Lewis Tech...there are a number of people like him and it can be quite enjoyable and surprising to watch.
    The reason I bring it up is because I watched one and I too had a moral delema in not saying anything about it till now.
    IF you DD..(short for Duck Duck)
    "Refunding $25,000 from tech support scam back to the scam victims (part 1) | scambaiting #9"
    you should find a video by Galigus on You Tube where he is able to access the banking transactions of a company or individual who does "tech Support" online.
    Now the reason I mention this is my dilemma. is I think that the tech support guy had actually done things that were legitimate and that he really hadn't done anything where he scammed anyone...I could be wrong and I have too busy to go back and confirm...but it is in the back of my head..
    Lewis Tech targets are doing useless/lying procedures and deserve to be a target...imo
    The guy in Galigus's video...installed software ran legitimate tests etc(not certain my memory not great, but I put this out there to show the limitations of any system, animal or mineral, we make mistakes)..the end result was he lost about $30000 from his bank account...real folding money....pardon me ...ledgers representing real money...lol
    If you can watch the video and let me know what you think...Update...I just rewatched it and as far as I can tell Galigus stole money from a company that actually used real programs and services that indeed were to help the computer and didn't scam the customer...imo
    My dilemma is I didn't make a comment for fear of getting needlessly flamed online and I couldn't get the money back anyway.
    ""The previous was Off topic""

    And when You say...

    To be honest, nobody can convince you to be in favor of or against Cryptocurrencies, nor that anybody should (in my honest opinion, in principle).

    think of Bitcoin mining, Cryptocurrencies as a Business Investment. there's no guarantee anybody (not even the company backing it up) can give that it will net a profit. Business inherently is risky. best one can do is to research and make a(n) educated guess(es), the likelihood of it turning into a profit.

    and pay the consequences of Trusting or Distrusting it by themselves*"

    Everything that I do has unforeseen risk...

    If I do something that works or am able to save myself grief or money I like to enlighten my friends...problem is sometimes the most simple of things can do unexpected things...
    I am careful with how and what I share.
    Especially today..
    There are things I don't talk about electronically...
    Such is life
    I don't think badly about anyone mining...probably a little jealous..lol
    I just see it as a gamble and anything you put in expect to lose...if you don't great...just not going to advise anyone else to "get in"

    "it makes me happy that you actually watched all of them. the part where how bitcoin works and basing itself on not trusting anybody is especially interesting, right? "

    Can't just say right ...I can nod and say a!hunh...but I don't want to mislead...
    I watched it and tried to understand it. Not trusting anyone can be a good thing, too a point, in a Star Trek movie I think that is how they destroyed an enemy by having it self destruct...doing something that doesn't compute...."basing itself on not trusting anybody" ...would be one of those impossible scenarios ...you have to trust something....
    also... trust can (possibly) be manipulated in ways we don't know yet.
    Everything has a backdoor or unknown security weakness...some just not discovered and some made intentionally.
    We all need to be able to trust something...otherwise you go crazy
    Right
    The movie was used to educate so it too must be given artistic license..

    '''Trolley Problem...
    Started reading the wiki and instantly a few lines in I already have a solution.
    this wiki is different in your story and brings everything to light immediately
    You are a bystander beside a switch..5 people tied up one way...1 tied up the other...
    So before I can go any further I already have only partially thrown the switch derailing the trolley and possibly killing/injuring the driver...only the driver who went to work knowing the risks...and myself who had to do something ..
    I have saved more than I have destroyed by making quick decisions...
    ie...dog running around aimlessly while all of the people near the intersection go about their business (replace dog with any young unknowing creature) and I see that it is suddenly going to get killed by a car that has the right of way but can't see the victim approaching...but I can see everything...I quickly blow my air horn with enough gusto that everyone stops and the creature is safe because I made enough of a difference to matter...
    See my dilemma...I jump to solutions and move on...lol
    or I get stuck trying to find the real meaning...
    and do things that don't matter...
    Not everything has worked out perfectly...I have made mistakes that I wished I could have done differently and they can haunt me...which is only my problem...I don't make victims...I am careful not to be evil ...imo
    Last edited by Smokin_Joe; 11-09-2017 at 10:16 PM. Reason: off topic dilemma

  8. #28
    ROG Guru: Black Belt Array Korth PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokin_Joe View Post
    Just for fun check out Aliexpress and punch in some details on what you are looking for in a video card or anything electronic.
    Might not be a brand name , let me know what you find.
    I source stuff from Alibaba all the time. Or AliExpress when I necessary because I don't want to buy minimum orders of 100-500 pieces, lol.

    But not processors, mainboards, memory, and GPU cards. Lack of branding doesn't bother me much, I often strip corporate branding off all my stuff anyhow. Lack of confidence in products which came from "ghost shifts" or "unauthorized distributors" does bother me, it means no guarantee that the products passed normal quality controls and no guarantee from the manufacturer. Something like a computer chassis is what it is, something like a GPU card is too critical to compromise just to save a little money. Only my opinion.
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams

    [/Korth]

  9. #29
    ROG Enthusiast Array Smokin_Joe's Avatar
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    I hear ya...we all have to be selective in our sources

    Quote Originally Posted by Korth View Post
    I source stuff from Alibaba all the time. Or AliExpress when I necessary because I don't want to buy minimum orders of 100-500 pieces, lol.

    But not processors, mainboards, memory, and GPU cards. Lack of branding doesn't bother me much, I often strip corporate branding off all my stuff anyhow. Lack of confidence in products which came from "ghost shifts" or "unauthorized distributors" does bother me, it means no guarantee that the products passed normal quality controls and no guarantee from the manufacturer. Something like a computer chassis is what it is, something like a GPU card is too critical to compromise just to save a little money. Only my opinion.
    I will look for new items that are way too expensive for what you are getting..for example I bought a OEM Samsung tablet cover for $14 cdn when they first came out..$50+ taxes locally.
    Items that are not complicated machinery or electronics.
    It is more a go too source for hard to find items...for me.
    I bought a cpu that was used and (discontinued from Intel..) Core 2 2.4ghz Quad for $12...It was the max my P5B could use properly and man what a difference..It easily runs my little vpc of torrents and the host server runs quieter..
    Aliexpress has unbelievable stuff...imagination is your limit...Off road vehicles...side by side ...diesel powered...buy two landed for way less than buying something locally...crazy.
    I too have problems justifying the purchase of stuff that is new (laptop, tablet, phone, motherboard, gpu etc.. for a new build) and should have a warranty for problems so i use Amazon, Staples etc for those to protect my purchase.
    I also use Aliexpress to get an understand of what things are, sometimes. You hear the name of something and it doesn't readily appear in a search and suddenly Aliexpress sells the kit or component needed to make it.
    Long time ago when I first discovered Alibaba and Aliexpress I was looking for something hard to find.
    They had it! and they would supply a 1000, a week, if needed...lol
    Last edited by Smokin_Joe; 11-10-2017 at 01:06 AM.

  10. #30
    ROG Enthusiast Array Smokin_Joe's Avatar
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    Question Is it worth setting up cyrpto mining rig?

    Ok

    Since I have decided that a number of people don't feel that crypto mining for the currency is evil.

    Is it something worthwhile doing?

    As a hobby?

    What do you guys think?

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