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  1. #31
    ROG Enthusiast Array Nixon2992 PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by no1yak View Post
    With this windows update I have no performance degradation . No latency issues no drop in performance with the 8700K.

    Attachment 70188
    You watch DPC latency.
    This update increase reaction for kernel space objects called from user space to see average time reaction to calls this objects set kernel timer latency in latencyMon.
    On Haswell-E some degradation speed and RAM latency.
    "Old" servers on Haswell-EP or Broadwell-EP with high I/O payload may have serious degradation in typical scenarios work (database fetching or Big data analysis).
    Miniatura de Adjuntos Miniatura de Adjuntos DPC.JPG  

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    Last edited by Nixon2992; 01-05-2018 at 06:06 PM.

  2. #32
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array xeizo PC Specs
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    Yes, us with Intel CPUs all needs new bioses with the new microcode to get the current full protection for these exploits, I hope Asus is working on it though I understand there is numerous boards so is no small task ....

  3. #33
    ROG Guru: Brown Belt Array Vlada011 PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeizo View Post
    Yes, us with Intel CPUs all needs new bioses with the new microcode to get the current full protection for these exploits, I hope Asus is working on it though I understand there is numerous boards so is no small task ....

    If someone could find solution for problems that's ASUS.


  4. #34
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array xeizo PC Specs
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    Meanwhile, I have tested the Linux-version of the software-patch. For desktop use there seems to be little performance impact, in Geekbench 4 I scored 2.21% worse for multi and 0.2% for single, hopefully the Windows patch performs similar. I hear the OSX-patch also has little performance impact.

    How the new bios microcode will affect performance, we do not know yet.

  5. #35
    TeamROG Moderator Array xeromist PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by ondersma80 View Post
    Is there a reason the forum is propagating this is an Intel / ARM only issue? I see a teamrog mod even renamed the thread this particular way. On the first day or two that was the thought but a simple google search will show the other big players are also affected. I'm not suggesting anything nefarious; I believe Intel, AMD, ARM are all working and will sort this as best they can working with vendors and developers.

    https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/

    "Variants of this issue are known to affect many modern processors, including certain processors by Intel, AMD and ARM. For a few Intel and AMD CPU models, we have exploits that work against real software. We reported this issue to Intel, AMD and ARM on 2017-06-01 [1]"
    The original thread title already said Intel & ARM. I only added the names at the beginning. The reason everyone is focusing on Intel & ARM is that AMD chips are not vulnerable to Meltdown as far as anyone knows. ARM susceptibility seems to vary by model since features vary. So Intel is hardest hit by this.

    All modern CPUs are vulnerable to Spectre but the fixes are likely to be a patchwork mess. It's unlikely there will be microcode updates for the majority of boards since this issue goes back more than a decade and only some of Intel's lines are physically capable of altering branch prediction behavior. It sounds like only Broadwell & newer, but this could change as new information emerges. AMD hasn't offered a solution for Spectre exploits other than to suggest OS vendors should fix it. That's why I didn't bother adding AMD to the title since it sounds like AMD isn't planning on doing anything about it.

    On a side note: The reason this is an uncoordinated mess is that the announcement wasn't supposed to happen for another week. Security researchers figured it out early. The reason they figured it out early is that one of AMD's engineers described the flaw when posting a patch to the Linux kernel. The information in his patch note wasn't supposed to be public. That told everyone where to look. So if you're annoyed by the way this played out, thank AMD.
    Last edited by xeromist; 01-05-2018 at 08:16 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Scone View Post
    Those comments from AMD are bog standard replies, there are simply no known ways to exploit at this moment in time. It's the same as companies claiming that something kills 99% of all germs.

    I don’t think so.

    Because there are (until now!) three vulnerabilities detected:
    Spectre, with 2 variants: type 1 - CVE-2017-5753 vulnerabiliity, also known as Bounds Check Bypass and
    type 2 - CVE-2017-5715 bug, also known as Branch Target Injection.
    Meltdown: CVE-2017-5754, also known as Rogue Data Cache Load.

    And AMD has been very clear about these bugs: they admit both variants of Spectre in AMD CPU’s, but they say that Meltdown bug does not affect AMD CPU’s because of their architecture that is different from Intel’s.

    Throwing all the complexity of the vulnerabilities in a cliché like “all companies are trying to trick us” is not very smart and helpfull.

    For people that have Windows as OS, we can run the PowerShell script to see if the Microsoft updates are protecting our PC from Spectre, type 2 and Meltdown, type 3.
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...erabilities-in

    Would be interesting to see several PowerShell, especially from people with different CPU’s and OS versions and compare them during the next few days with the upcoming corrections.

  7. #37
    ROG Enthusiast Array Nixon2992 PC Specs
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    Power Shell violation test result

    Quote Originally Posted by squawker View Post
    I don’t think so.

    Because there are (until now!) three vulnerabilities detected:
    Spectre, with 2 variants: type 1 - CVE-2017-5753 vulnerabiliity, also known as Bounds Check Bypass and
    type 2 - CVE-2017-5715 bug, also known as Branch Target Injection.
    Meltdown: CVE-2017-5754, also known as Rogue Data Cache Load.

    And AMD has been very clear about these bugs: they admit both variants of Spectre in AMD CPU’s, but they say that Meltdown bug does not affect AMD CPU’s because of their architecture that is different from Intel’s.

    Throwing all the complexity of the vulnerabilities in a cliché like “all companies are trying to trick us” is not very smart and helpfull.

    For people that have Windows as OS, we can run the PowerShell script to see if the Microsoft updates are protecting our PC from Spectre, type 2 and Meltdown, type 3.
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...erabilities-in

    Would be interesting to see several PowerShell, especially from people with different CPU’s and OS versions and compare them during the next few days with the upcoming corrections.
    Version microcode on system:0x38
    OS: W10 1709 with security latest Patches.
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    Last edited by Nixon2992; 01-05-2018 at 10:06 PM.

  8. #38
    ROG Guru: Yellow Belt Array Axle Grease PC Specs
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    Ah, so the MS patch is only installed, but until mobo manufactures release updated BIOSes containing the new intel microcode, there is no hardware support to enable the patch. Do I have that right? It does explain why there's stuff all difference in pre and post patch CPU benchmarks so far.
    "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes." -- Unknown

  9. #39
    ROG Enthusiast Array Nixon2992 PC Specs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axle Grease View Post
    Ah, so the MS patch is only installed, but until mobo manufactures release updated BIOSes containing the new intel microcode, there is no hardware support to enable the patch. Do I have that right? It does explain why there's stuff all difference in pre and post patch CPU benchmarks so far.
    Dear.
    You can try "update" microcode on Windows with VMware CPU Microcode Update Driver.
    Last version public blob micocodes from intel:
    https://downloadcenter.intel.com/dow...le?product=873
    On Linux based systems new microcodes implented in latest Kernel.
    Latest version FW in public blob for Haswell-E:0x3A
    Latest version FW implented in updated LInux Kernel for Haswell-E:0x3B.
    Best Regards.
    Archivos Adjuntos
    Last edited by Nixon2992; 01-05-2018 at 10:21 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axle Grease View Post
    Ah, so the MS patch is only installed, but until mobo manufactures release updated BIOSes containing the new intel microcode, there is no hardware support to enable the patch. Do I have that right? It does explain why there's stuff all difference in pre and post patch CPU benchmarks so far.
    Depends what benchmarks you're referring to and more importantly which mediation was used. The original proposed solution at least in Linux, from Intel, has or had quite a bite more overhead then the one Google claims to have gone with. There's also the issue of what was really being tested since not all games for example would be affected as they are more GPU constrained.

    Part of the fud being thrown around still involves what the exploits actually are.
    Your computer is like a school bus. In the morning it picks up kids for school but during the day and afternoon it's chartered. What's supposed to happen is the bus gets cleaned between uses. Meltdown exploits the garbage people leave behind. SPECTRE is less exploit and more observation since it's like looking at the gas gage to judge how far the bus went between users. It doesn't know who they are but can eventually piece together enough data to guess.

    All Intel's done at this point is replace the cleaning staff. They're slower, cost more and demanded concessions.

    Both are well understood design problems. Meltdown should never have happened if Intel actually followed ring isolation.

    What they are now calling SPECTRE for this, has been around for a long, long time and can affect anything with a cache since it's a timing attack. In HTTP it would be like a CDN sitting between you and a server. Probe the CDN enough and you can tell what is in cache. Find a way to uniquely identify a user - with say a session id in the url or sites without any kind of random seed - and you can passively determine where they have gone based on what is in the CDN. If it's there the response will be faster. That is what bugs like SPECTRE, are.

    It's quite different from Meltdown and a smokescreen attempt by Intel.

    * I've deliberately left out the mitigation methods in HTTP to better illustrate the point.

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