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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tostitobandito View Post
    Quote from hardware unboxed, updating his comments in the video:



    I'm not sure why there's doubt here. All the Z370 non-apex Maximus boards were 4x2 for 8 core phases with doublers, and these are the same (using different components). Why would they all of the sudden go to a 4 phase without doublers for Z390 which has steeper power requirements, and why would they still have 8 phases of components on the board if they did go down that road? Then, why would these Z390 boards still overclock fantastically after all that? It makes zero sense.

    I'll have my board in hand tomorrow to look personally, but I have no reason to doubt it based on the overclocking results already demonstrated with the board plus all the other information I've seen stating that it's a 4x2 config. It's done extreme OC's in excess of 6.5 GHz on a 9900K (with LN2) already without the VRM's being an issue. If for some reason it is only a 4 phase, Asus must have stumbled onto some novel design because it overclocks a 9900K just as well as any of the competing boards.

    https://youtu.be/zN7VwAmp-_s
    For those wanting direct evidence, the guy doing LN2 overclocking at the Intel launch event was using the Maximus XI Hero and he got it to 6.8 GHz.
    Thanks for responding tostitobandito

    First, what you quoted from Steve was only the initial comment. Here's how it looks in it'e entirety with the update

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Steve from HU's comment about 4 phase highlighted.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	253.2 KB 
ID:	76469

    The highlighted part is the update. And then doubling down, tripling down and further, continuing to respond with versions of "it's fake" it's "not true 8 phase".

    Why is this important? Well it isn't to solve a he said she said argument, but it's important to get the facts straight. And the fact is that this is still continuing and spilling over, and it's raised alarm. It's had the corollary effect of calling into question the build quality of the board based on specific details. And the argument has moved to one of implying deception on Asus's part. I happen to own the product. I wholeheartedly agree with your reasoning about "why would Asus go down that road of changing to 4 when there's more power requirements" and I'm absolutely not doubting if Steve from GN got X result ( I saw the vid), or another person got Y result.

    But the intent here is to have some clear factual information. I want to emphasize that. Some of us are trying to get clear factual info as we go along, in the form of answering specific questions. So for starters:

    1) does the board use doublers or does it not? Can you please provide a picture or proof, or how could we get Asus to do that, or who at Asus could verify that for us customers?

    2) Is the XI Hero using the IR3559 doublers as this seemed to be the choice of some excellent previous gen ROG boards, or has Asus gone with something else?

    So I'm not trying to prove or disprove that person X got a specific result, and whether that's possible based on overall build quality; I'm trying to get some particular technical questions answered.

    Because these boards are so new, we're not yet seeing any of the kind of in depth teardowns we'd see from the usual tech sites, or someone like GN's channel \ a buildzoid deep dive, or der8auer. (If there are some that you or anyone reading this knows of, then please direct me there) So without that info peoples concerns are not being alleviated; they're not getting the info they would like, or their questions answered, or even in some cases, not knowing the questions to ask, or where to ask them. Not every consumer will do the deep dive.

    So when you say "I'm not sure why there's doubt here" ... I'm not sure why you wouldn't understand that people have doubts as questions have been raised based on very specific details, or how I can better explain why people have those doubts. Again ... making the assumptions you've made, I'm with ya. It all sounds perfectly logical and reasonable. But now let's see if we can answer some of the questions, or find those who can.

    thanks tostitobandito

    EDIT: I apologize for multiple re-edits. I didn't think it made sense originally
    Last edited by jackflynn; 10-23-2018 at 12:42 PM. Reason: My crap spelling and grammar

  2. #12
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    Yeah no problem. Hopefully I'll have my board in a few hours and I can try to do some sort of PCB analysis on it. I'm not buildzoid, but I think I can google part numbers and figure out what goes where.

    That said, Asus could also be doing something unconventional here as I mentioned earlier, assuming they found a solution which they though was better than the doubled 4 phase they used in the Maximus X.

    However, their advertising for the board still says "twin 8 phase" which is marketing-speak but sounds to me like how they'd describe a 4x2 config. Also from another Asus page announcing their Z390 boards "Eight cores require more power, especially when pushed beyond stock speeds, so our full-sized Z390 boards are beefed up with at least eight power phases for the CPU and one more for the integrated graphics." I don't know why they would double down on something like that if it were false, since anyone who bought the board could potentially use it to get a refund. Asus has also never really been one to talk up power phases before, or get into VRM phase e-peen contests like some other manufacturers.

    Also, the STRIX boards which sit below these in the product lineup appear to have a 6+2+1+1 config:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/co...390i_vrm_info/

    Some feedback from buildzoid here. As far as he knows it has doublers and 8 phases:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comme...n8q/?context=3
    Last edited by tostitobandito; 10-23-2018 at 05:26 PM.

  3. #13
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    I need Asus to answer the Hero XI Real Power Phases number as this is inciting me to cancel my Asus XI hero order and go for another brand instead.

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16813119150

    "Twin 8-phase power design" Is this true or not???

  4. #14
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    Yeah, someone from Asus should really chime in here. These boards are being trashed as junk on reddit/youtube and it's probably costing them sales.

    As I said earlier I think that's unfair regardless of the VRM config because we know the XI boards have beefier power delivery than the X boards, and the X boards had a doubled 8+2 power phase setup. We know the XI is at least as good as that, but we don't know what the exact configuration used is since it appears somewhat different. The people obsessed with phase counts are thus calling it junk. And yeah, Asus called it 8 phase in their advertising in multiple places, so they need to explain how the phases are controlled.

    Anyone ordering these boards, I wouldn't worry since enough reviewers/overclockers have had great OC results with the Maximus XI boards. The concern is more around honesty and possible deceptive advertising, not so much functionality.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScomComputers LTD. View Post
    Thanks,but the Strix Z390 F works fine with 9900K/5Ghz ?
    Really depends on your type of load and cooling. If you're talking about Prime 95 with AVX instructions at 5GHz without any airflow on the VRM, probably not. Then again most cases have a bit of airflow and not many CPUs can do that without crashing or overheating.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackflynn View Post
    Thanks for responding tostitobandito

    First, what you quoted from Steve was only the initial comment. Here's how it looks in it'e entirety with the update

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Steve from HU's comment about 4 phase highlighted.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	253.2 KB 
ID:	76469

    The highlighted part is the update. And then doubling down, tripling down and further, continuing to respond with versions of "it's fake" it's "not true 8 phase".

    Why is this important? Well it isn't to solve a he said she said argument, but it's important to get the facts straight. And the fact is that this is still continuing and spilling over, and it's raised alarm. It's had the corollary effect of calling into question the build quality of the board based on specific details. And the argument has moved to one of implying deception on Asus's part. I happen to own the product. I wholeheartedly agree with your reasoning about "why would Asus go down that road of changing to 4 when there's more power requirements" and I'm absolutely not doubting if Steve from GN got X result ( I saw the vid), or another person got Y result.

    But the intent here is to have some clear factual information. I want to emphasize that. Some of us are trying to get clear factual info as we go along, in the form of answering specific questions. So for starters:

    1) does the board use doublers or does it not? Can you please provide a picture or proof, or how could we get Asus to do that, or who at Asus could verify that for us customers?

    2) Is the XI Hero using the IR3559 doublers as this seemed to be the choice of some excellent previous gen ROG boards, or has Asus gone with something else?

    So I'm not trying to prove or disprove that person X got a specific result, and whether that's possible based on overall build quality; I'm trying to get some particular technical questions answered.

    Because these boards are so new, we're not yet seeing any of the kind of in depth teardowns we'd see from the usual tech sites, or someone like GN's channel \ a buildzoid deep dive, or der8auer. (If there are some that you or anyone reading this knows of, then please direct me there) So without that info peoples concerns are not being alleviated; they're not getting the info they would like, or their questions answered, or even in some cases, not knowing the questions to ask, or where to ask them. Not every consumer will do the deep dive.

    So when you say "I'm not sure why there's doubt here" ... I'm not sure why you wouldn't understand that people have doubts as questions have been raised based on very specific details, or how I can better explain why people have those doubts. Again ... making the assumptions you've made, I'm with ya. It all sounds perfectly logical and reasonable. But now let's see if we can answer some of the questions, or find those who can.

    thanks tostitobandito

    EDIT: I apologize for multiple re-edits. I didn't think it made sense originally
    Quote Originally Posted by BLACKSAMA View Post
    I need Asus to answer the Hero XI Real Power Phases number as this is inciting me to cancel my Asus XI hero order and go for another brand instead.

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16813119150

    "Twin 8-phase power design" Is this true or not???

    Quote Originally Posted by tostitobandito View Post
    Yeah, someone from Asus should really chime in here. These boards are being trashed as junk on reddit/youtube and it's probably costing them sales.

    As I said earlier I think that's unfair regardless of the VRM config because we know the XI boards have beefier power delivery than the X boards, and the X boards had a doubled 8+2 power phase setup. We know the XI is at least as good as that, but we don't know what the exact configuration used is since it appears somewhat different. The people obsessed with phase counts are thus calling it junk. And yeah, Asus called it 8 phase in their advertising in multiple places, so they need to explain how the phases are controlled.

    Anyone ordering these boards, I wouldn't worry since enough reviewers/overclockers have had great OC results

    with the Maximus XI boards. The concern is more around honesty and possible deceptive advertising, not so much functionality.
    A single-phase VRM (voltage regulator module) works by varying the pulse width (PWM, pulse width modulation) of the signal sent to the power stage (combination of driver, high-side and low-side MOSFET) in order to achieve a certain output voltage. A multi-phase VRM controller alternates the PWM signal between several phases.

    For example, a 4-phase VRM would first activate phase #1, secondly #2, thirdly #3 and lastly #4 after which the circle
    continuous from the beginning. A doubler would add a second stage of interleaving. With a 4-phase VRM + doublers, when phase #1 is selected power stage 1A is activated, then following the previously mentioned sequence. The second time phase #1 is selected, power stage 1B is activated. A 4-phase VRM with double components like M11H will act exactly like the 4-phase without doublers above, except that when it activates phase #1 it activates 2x power stages 1A+1B, then another two power stages 2A+2B, thirdly power stages 3A+3B and lastly 4A+4B.

    There are still 8 power stages (including drivers) for Vcore which each can handle 45-50A. The current output capability is the same as a "real 8-phase" solution. Further details including pros and cons of the different configurations are available in the link of my previous post.

  6. #16
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    Have the board in-hand and can confirm there don't appear to be any doublers that I can see. Unless Asus states otherwise, what is stated above about this being a wide/parallel 4 phase seems accurate. So you'd call it a 4+2 with 2 power stages per each of the four core phases.

    That said, this configuration still seems competitive with the other Z390 boards. Do we obsess too much about the number of phases?
    Last edited by tostitobandito; 10-23-2018 at 07:33 PM.

  7. #17
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    I would agree that the proof is in the pudding. I really do not care how many phases a mobo has as long as it runs the CPU at stock or highly overclocked speeds with rock solid reliability, and that the power delivery design does not limit the overclock or require modified cooling in order to achieve what's advertised. The issue is having confidence in your board when Asus, along with the entire mobo industry, has been touting power delivery and number of phases in their marketing speak for years. Honestly, I couldn't care less how many phases the Hero XI has as long as it performs top notch with reliability. As an "early adopter" and long time ROG user, I'd hate to find out down the road that I did not purchase the optimal solution for the power hungry 9900k.

    I do think some words from Asus here would help. The silence thus far on this is a bit disconcerting....but maybe they have not seen this yet. I suspect they have and must be preparing a response. I'd think they would be as this must be hitting their sales as word spreads.

  8. #18
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    Thanks all for posting,

    I was able to confirm a lot myself today digging a little further. I've tried repeatedly to post more info and the source of much of the "fake phase" accusations, but every time I try to do an attachment here it blocks me from posting.

  9. #19
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    Thought I'd share this. First XI Hero \ 9900K build I've seen.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comme...EY&sh=e8421d5b

    Here's his thermals

    https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comme...k_custom_loop/

    Pretty sweet!

  10. #20
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    Nice.

    I'm just finishing up my case wiring after getting my Hero today. Now I get to wait a few weeks for my CPU.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by tostitobandito; 10-24-2018 at 01:38 AM.

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